Will the map be pushed down Southward at all? like in the Asia mod. Mostly interested if the East African trading states would be added in the future with the coming of merchant republics and trade next year.
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They're adding Indonesia, which would be at roughly the same Latitude as the Swahili Coast. I think it would be a cool edition, especially since we know trade is coming in the next chapter.
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Swahili Coast, East African trade center that controlled Asia & Africa trade 12 - 15th CE | The African History
From the 8th century, the Swahili Coast on the East African coast was a location where Africans and Arabs interacted
theafricanhistory.com
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Personally I hope so but the fact they are "completing" the map of the old world with no mention of Africa makes me think they won't unfortunately. As you say it depends how they add Asia, do they squish Japan and South East Asia in or will it be more accurate scale in which Congo and the Swahili coast will have to be on the map. If the map is more squished then it feels like they purposely did it to avoid having to deal with Africa.
I might be a bit of a big map extremist but I honestly think they could go all the way to the Cape of Good Hope given how close Mapungubwe and Great Zimbabwe already are to the Cape but at least the Swahili coast in my opinion deserves a spot on the map.
I might be a bit of a big map extremist but I honestly think they could go all the way to the Cape of Good Hope given how close Mapungubwe and Great Zimbabwe already are to the Cape but at least the Swahili coast in my opinion deserves a spot on the map.
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I really hope they add it, even if it's empty just to be done with the map fully.
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Since it might be the last map extension and Swahili coast was an important place in Middle Ages, it would be cool to have them there. It shouldn't be a big extension anyway
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They would not even need to make many locations playable. Just the importance for trade in the Indian ocean alone warrants the inclusion for a proper implementation of trade in the future.
Being able to find an alternative route to India by rounding the Cape earlier than happened historically, due to say an earlier fall of Constantinople (or just to become the vinkingest viking to ever viking, or a Zheng He, Ibn Battuta or Marco Polo that chose a different route), would be a bonus.
Being able to find an alternative route to India by rounding the Cape earlier than happened historically, due to say an earlier fall of Constantinople (or just to become the vinkingest viking to ever viking, or a Zheng He, Ibn Battuta or Marco Polo that chose a different route), would be a bonus.
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hmm, I don't think it need to go down that far. Swahili coast would be all we need.
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All of the people you've described did not have access to ships that could reliably round the Cape. Vikings were incredibly lucky to even cross the ocean from Iceland to Greenland.
100% add the Swahili coast for a proper Indian ocean trade network (perhaps only in Ch V), but I'd be fine with leaving southern Africa out of it.
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I do wonder how far south people would like to see? Would we want to go as far as Great Zimbabwe or even Mapungubwe? Is even Madagascar too far south? And further than that, how far do you go into the interior of Africa? Should Congo be included despite the Kingdom of Kongo's formation being pretty close to the end date. What about Kitara and the regions west of Lake Victoria, from what I've seen agriculture and settlements are present here as early as potentially 1000 AD but equally this region is quite isolated.
Personally I think these regions could provide quite a different gameplay experience with a more fleshed out progression from Tribal to Feudal/Clan/etc. that would make them worth adding but, not really sure if it makes sense in CK3.
So I wonder what other peoples thoughts are, where would you draw the line for how much of Africa should be added and what do you do about the interior?
Personally I think these regions could provide quite a different gameplay experience with a more fleshed out progression from Tribal to Feudal/Clan/etc. that would make them worth adding but, not really sure if it makes sense in CK3.
So I wonder what other peoples thoughts are, where would you draw the line for how much of Africa should be added and what do you do about the interior?
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In fact I personally want Swahili coast to be an offmap power, then we won't need to worry about them conquering natives, or conquered by natives, or a Maasai conqueror just shows up and conquer them all. None are quite realistic I 'll say. But if they are shown on map, please must not forget Hehe people. Ruling Haha, Hehe and Lolland in game may make life softer sometimes.
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In my heart of hearts the furthest south I'd love to see is just south of great zimbabwe, and therefore including all of madagascar.
But I don't think this is realistic and adds a lot of 'empty space' to the map and also australia which will just be sitting there.
So Kilwa and the northern tip of madagascar would be perfect and realsitic and I believe would only extend the eastern map to the very northern tip of australia.
Provincewise the swahili coast is all I need. But I am a province maximalist and I'd not mind a tribal congo, great lakes region, and madagascar.
I think most people just want the swahili coast to Kilwa and that's it and that's more than good enough and the argument that should be presented to paradox and other players.
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I think the Swahili coast should be the absolute maximum. Absolutely no need to go further south to Madagascar and Zimbabwe.
Rounding the cape of good hope would be absolutely absurd and the game map should definitely not go that far south.
Rounding the cape of good hope would be absolutely absurd and the game map should definitely not go that far south.
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Would be fine for me as well, though the option wouldn’t be that far fetched either. Also, a Great Zimbabwe inclusion would be interesting to represent a unique perspective of the medieval world. No need to include it any time soon though
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You are right of course, but it is not unreasonable to envision an earlier implementation of naval technology. Especially considering we can already accelerate technological advancement in game. Being able to get better ships is very explainable with the right pressures/incentives.
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I mean it could be an endgame/later start goal for trade. It happened 50 years after the end date, it really isn’t that far fetched. Though I agree that it would be the lowest priority
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If West Africa, especially the Guinean Highlands, can be playable, the areas you mentioned could be too. Now whether they can make it interesting opens up the same depth debate as always.
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As it stands they'll all convert to Islam by 1066 anyway so I'd rather they not include the region, either way the Guinean Highlands are in the game mostly because of their interaction with the states of the western Sahel which are also barely functional in game. The Sahara, Lower Niger, central Sahel, and Senegambia/Atlantic coast regions are arguably in a worse state than these
I can see the Swahili coast fitting in the game because they'd just need a few republics and maybe some inland regions to get trade goods from but until we get a fleshed out upland Guinea and Sahara I don't really trust the game systems to make playing in the Congo basin, Great Lakes, Angola, or Zambezi regions any fun
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I'd rather they add swahili now rather than later, as this is most likely the first and last map expansion we're going to get. Better to do it now and not have to lobby for it later when trade comes out next year.
The Oriental Empire mod already adds the area anyway. So I don't see why Paradox can't, if they're adding Indonesia.
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