EEP: Ramazan

[chegitz guevara]

Ramazan, aka, Karaman (the other Karaman), aka Cilicia: A minor state that really wasn't a major player, but it took part in the war between the Ottomans and the Mamelukes in the 1490's and was only finally annexed by the Ottomans in 1516. It was a vassal of the Mamelukes, like Dulkadir (which I think should be returned as a vassal of the Mamelukes).

 

[chegitz guevara]

monarchs.ami

[color=white][b]# Ramazan #

# Emir

historicalmonarch = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 05550 }
	name = "'Izz ud-Din Hamza Beg"
	startdate = {
		year = 1416
	}
	deathdate = {
		year = 1419
	}
	DIP = 6
	ADM = 5
	MIL = 6
	dormant = no
}
historicalmonarch = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 05551 }
	name = "Mehmet I Beg"
	startdate = {
		year = 1419
	}
	deathdate = {
		year = 1436
	}
	DIP = 4
	ADM = 6
	MIL = 5
	dormant = no
}
historicalmonarch = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 05552 }
	name = "Arslan Doud"
	startdate = {
		year = 1436
	}
	deathdate = {
		year = 1480
	}
	DIP = 5
	ADM = 5
	MIL = 5
	dormant = no
}
historicalmonarch = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 05553 }
	name = "Ghars ud-Din Khalil Beg"
	startdate = {
		year = 1480
	}
	deathdate = {
		year = 1510
	}
	DIP = 3
	ADM = 4
	MIL = 5
	dormant = no
}
historicalmonarch = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 05554 }
	name = "Piri Mohammed Pasha"
	startdate = {
		year = 1510
	}
	deathdate = {
		year = 1568
	}
	DIP = 5
	ADM = 5
	MIL = 6
	dormant = no
}
historicalmonarch = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 05555 }
	name = "Darwish Beg"
	startdate = {
		year = 1568
	}
	deathdate = {
		year = 1578
	}
	DIP = 3
	ADM = 4
	MIL = 5
	dormant = no
}
historicalmonarch = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 05556 }
	name = "Ibrahim II Beg"
	startdate = {
		year = 1578
	}
	deathdate = {
		year = 1594
	}
	DIP = 4
	ADM = 6
	MIL = 5
	dormant = no
}
historicalmonarch = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 05557 }
	name = "Mehmet II "
	startdate = {
		year = 1594
	}
	deathdate = {
		year = 1608
	}
	DIP = 4
	ADM = 4
	MIL = 4
	dormant = no
}

# Ids free to 05559[/b][/color]

 

[chegitz guevara]

# Ramazan-Oghlu (Karaman) #

country = {
tag = AMI
colonialattempts = 0
colonialnation = no
major = no
colonists = 0
cancelledloans = 0
extendedloans = 0
treasury = 100
inflation = 0
merchants = 0.083333
religion = { type = sunni }
culture = { type = turkish }
diplomacy = {
}
knownprovinces = {
285 286 287 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 315 316
317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 350
351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360 361 362 363
364 365 366 367 368 369 370 371 389 390 391 392 393
394 395 396 397 398 399 400 401 402 403 404 405 406
407 426 427 429 430 435 436 437 438 439 440 443 444
445 449 450 451 452 453 454 455 456 457 458 459 460
461 462 463 464 465 466 467 468 469 470 471 472 473
474 475 476 477 478 479 480 481 482 483 484 485 486
487 488 489 490 491 492 493 494 495 496 497 498 508
510 511 512 513 514 515 518 519 520 521 522 523 524
525 526 527 528 529 530 531 532 533 534 535 539 732
733 734 735 736 737 738 739 740 741 742 743 744 745
746 747 819 820 821 982 983 984 985 986 987 988 989
990 991 992 993 994 995 996 997 998 999 1000 1001
1002 1003 1004 1005 1006 1007 1008 1009 1010 1011
1012 1013 1014 1015 1016 1017 1326 1327 1363 1529
1530 1531 1532 1533 1592 1594 1609 1610 1611 1613
}

ownedprovinces = {
483 }
controlledprovinces = {
483 }
nationalprovinces = {
483 }
city = { fortress = { level = 1 }
population = 10000
location = 483
capital = yes
}
landunit = {
id = { type = 6001 id = 110 }
name = "Ramazan Army"
location = 483
infantry = 5000
cavalry = 1000
artillery = 0
}
technology = {
stability = { level = 2 value = 42 }
infra = { level = 0 value = 0 }
trade = { level = 0 value = 0 }
land = { level = 0 value = 0 }
naval = { level = 0 value = 0 }
}
}

 

[Mad King James]

I've thought about this myself, and have no real solution for the situation...

The problem is the same as the problem in the low countries, there just isn't enough damn provinces! The only way you can really demonstrate the situation is cut a piece off Sivas and make a new province, which Dulkadir would inhabit, and make Ramazan in Cilicia.

You can have both in there if you give all of Sivas to Dulkadir, but I find this causes truly strange situations, such as Trebizond and Dulkadir warring against each other, when historically they were nowhere near each other.

My own personal solution has been to lump Dulkadir and Ramazan together inside Cilicia, since this puts them nicely between the Mamelukes and Ottomans as a buffer state and doesn't put them right in the heart of things like putting Dulkadir in Sivas is.

I don't really like this solution but...

Another solution I've been thinking about lately is making Karaman a one-province minor in their northern province with the city name being Larende, changing the city name in Taurus to Karaman, making Ramazan in Taurus, and leaving cilicia for Dulkadir.
Sure it's totally screwed up, but no more than anything else in the game, and besides, the Ottomans are supposed to be able to take out Karaman in a single blow. The only problem with this solution is Ramazan is supposed to border the Mamelukes, which they wouldn't now, and Ramazan is supposed to be the one with a port, not Dulkadir. So either way the situation is totally screwed up, but it's all about which aspect of screwed-uppedness is more important for you to fix...

 

[Lofman]

I would prefer Ramazan in Adana and Dulkadir in Sivas. The risk of Dulkadir and Trebizond fighting could maybe be reduced by giving the military access in the other one. Could that work?

 

[chegitz guevara]

I've seen at least two other maps (aside from EEP) that have Dulkadir in the Sivas region, though the capital city of the area, Matalya (or however it's spelled) is down near Aleppo. However, we could simply use that program that allows us to change the province borders, so that Sivas and Trabizon no longer touch and Angora and Kurdistan do.

As for the OE knocking out the Karaman in one blow, the Ottoman's fought (IIRC) four wars with the Karaman between 1419 and 1468 when the OE finally annexed them. Each time the Ottomans thoroughly trounced the Karaman and revassalized them. I know they took Konya years before they took Taurus.


I need a flag and some sprites.

 

[Mad King James]

Might as well just make something, finding data on the turkish minors as far as flags are concerned is futile

 

[Lofman]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
... However, we could simply use that program that allows us to change the province borders, so that Sivas and Trabizon no longer touch and Angora and Kurdistan do.

...

I don't think that would be such a good idea, since as far as i know it doesn't change the provinces appearance on the map, and there will be other nations then Dulkadir which will have Sivas, and they woud probably have the whole of it, and then it would look stupod if they can't go between Sivas and Trabzon without entering a third province on the way

 

[chegitz guevara]

Originally posted by Mad King James
Might as well just make something, finding data on the turkish minors as far as flags are concerned is futile

What did you use for Ayidin?

I'm strongly considering removing Teke, since it didn't even last ten years into the game (a little over seven to be exact).

 

[Mad King James]

I just turned Teke into Aydin. Teke shouldn't *really* exist, as they were almost wholly a client state of the Ottomans. Hell Aydin was pretty much a client state too, but a more independent one.

Ah well, whatever

 

[chegitz guevara]

changes to text.csv

AMI;Ramazan;;;;;;;;;;1265

AMI_DESC;In 1352 Ramazan, founder of the dynasty, was recognized by the Mameluke sultan of Egypt as the ruler of the Yzok branch of Oguz Turkmen in Cilicia. After a period of attempts to overthrow Mameluke suzerainty, the dynasty's principality about 1418 came under direct Mameluke control and lost its significance.With the extension of Ottoman territories to the Taurus Mountains and after an Ottoman-Mameluke war in 1485-90, the Ramazan territory assumed strategic importance for the Ottomans. In 1514 the Ramazan ruler Mahmud was deposed by the Mamelukes and sought refuge with the Ottoman sultan Selim I, who the next year defeated the Mamelukes in Syria and restored the principality to Mahmud. Mahmud's successor Piri was appointed by the Ottomans; he assisted them in suppressing Turkmen revolts in central and southern Anatolia (1526) and enjoyed the favour of Sultan Suleyman I the Magnificent. Cilicia was incorporated into the Ottoman Empire (1608), and thereafter members of the Ramazan dynasty continued to serve as governors of Ottoman provinces in Asia and in the Balkans.;;;;;;;;;;1368

 

[chegitz guevara]

changes to country.csv

AMI;LightBlue;LightOrange;muslim;TUR;MUS;MUS;MUS;8;5;5;9;7;6;6;6;0;x

 

[chegitz guevara]

MKJ, can I use your Aydin flags and shields?

 

[Twoflower]

Does anybody have an idea what the shield and flag for Ramazan should look like? I have submitted the stuff for this new nation for 1.4, but it cannot be included as long as we lack a shield and flag set.

 

[chegitz guevara]

I used Teke's. I need to give Ramazan a core on Aleppo also. They had control for it for quite a while.

 

[Garbon]

Although, I initially supported this, I'm wondering how good it is to have Ramazan. First of all, the area always goes bezerk and Dulkadir and Ramazan always get into bizarre wars and end up annexed or they go on an annexation spree.

Even in our description of Ramazan:

After a period of attempts to overthrow Mameluke suzerainty, the dynasty's principality about 1418 came under direct Mameluke control and lost its significance

So I guess I'm questioning having the Mams "vassals" as independent combined with maybe Aydin or some other Asia Minor state was more important? I know chegitz is around much but someone must know something, surely?