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unmerged(137745)

unmerged(137745)

Corporal
2 Badges
Mar 19, 2009
34
1
www.piratesahoy.net
  • East India Company
  • Majesty 2
I was writing this up for a review on my PA! website and thought I might get some feedback incase i'm being a bit harsh.

Firstly, I should point out I really wanted this game to work, I didn't have high expectation I just really wanted to like it.

The introduction and setup for the game are pretty straight forward, there are only a few choices to make (campaign, difficulty, sea battle realism & nation) from there you also get the choice to have tips and whether you want to do the tutorial missions. The tutorial missions are basically the usual, getting you to know what button does what type of thing.

From there you enter the world map. The game map covers Europe, around the cape of good hope, horn of Somalia, India, Mauritius and Dutch East Indies. Each city has a MTI Main_Trade_Items and a number of generic trade goods for you to fill the spaces up with as you travel around trading to your hearts content.

Graphics wise, think the last Sid Meiers Pirates!, it looks similar (on the 3D map) to a Gamebryo engine. That's generally a good thing, everything is easy to understand and recognize which is all you want. In the sea battles, it's alot like Empire (not like AOP at all) it's all tactical, you don't really control your ship from a "on the deck" perspective, it's a birds eye view.

With the gameplay the point of the game is simply to make money, that's it, no way to really spend it or like in Patrician/The Guild use that power and influence to make you rise up in the society. Also in Port Royale you could build your own manufacturng plants. What's actually disappointing is that there really are only a few good models for economic games and Nitro have not done their reseach on them to find out what worked well and how, Ascaron despite all of their other faults could make a good economic game standing on their head.

Also as mentioned in the "Changes to Make" thread the sea battles which initially were ok as it was new and shiny are quickly getting bothersome, you need to enter the battle each time if you want to run away as auto resolve means that you want your fleet to defend itself which in alot of cases is just plain crazy (ie me=merchant, pirate=many guns). Apart from that even if you do wish to fight it out, it's a long and tedious exercise with even a simple 1v1 ship battle taking 5-10 minutes.

Apart from that the trade is simplistic, I really need to emphisize that, both Patrician & Port Royale were leagues ahead when it comes to both ease of trade and variations of traderoutes. With EIC there is no great depth other than auto route here, auto route there, watch the values in the home port and if they get too low autoroute somewhere else. Also some of the choices we took for granted such as multiple city/item trade routes and delivering to the warehouse, warehouse auto sale on price increase, etc. are not included. Strange as East India sells itself as an econimic game first and everything else second.

Capturing all trade items really does nothing, it gives you a better chane of negotiating a better deal with other countries for sale of the items as you control 100% of supply although the to negotiate the items need to be in your home port. However, the autoroute does not allow you to take items from a warehouse and deliver to your home port warehouse so if you plan on doing this it has to be done manually every time. (Autoroute only buys items from a town then sells them at the home port, and you cannot choose what items or amounts, just a port..)

Mods are another thing thats a bit concerning, the mission scripts seem also quite simplisting and generic. I was thinking about making a quest for the slave mod with you having to buy slaves for the King, but then there would be a pirate waiting to stop you or something but I cannot for the life of me work out how to pick a port, a ship, make a quest country specific etc.. I don't doubt it's possible but as is it with the tools we have at the moment? I should also point out Kim has mentioned their next company blog will talk more about modding and whats possible, so I look forward to that one.

I'm trying not to be to negative and I realise that I have not made many positive comments, the problem is that while the problems on the economic side persist, the good work on the diplomacy and other elements cannot shine. East India is a trading game and if that part is broken no amount of window dressing will help it. It's saving grace is that the developers, Nitro, are an active lot with Kim visiting regularly to get feedback and I am positive that at least some of the issues I've brought up will be address and then hopefully we can all have a group hug and play EIC as I really want this game to work
 
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Why would you expect the massive number of flaws in this game to be something that will be addressed any time soon? Can you cite an example of a game that launched in this bad a shape and then managed to recover to the point where it was well regarded in the game world? The game disappoints on so many fronts it's inconceivable to me that it will be able to recover from what will almost certainly be regarded as a failed launch. You only get one chance to launch a product. I'm not sure why you're trying to avoid being negative, your readers expect you to call it like you see it, and not try to sugar coat it in an attempt to be nice.

Next.
 
Honestly, the fault's it has are not fundamental imho, ie. the economic model is not broken, just how you go about it. They are like faults that someone would make when not thinking a bit like how an engineer makes drawings a toolmaker cannot make type thing. In other words, I don't think they played the game much themselves.

The negative part, I don't think i was sugar coating it. I was just wondering if I was being too harsh, I'm only 1 person and possibly it was just me.
 
K3ith said:
Honestly, the fault's it has are not fundamental imho, ie. the economic model is not broken, just how you go about it. They are like faults that someone would make when not thinking a bit like how an engineer makes drawings a toolmaker cannot make type thing. In other words, I don't think they played the game much themselves.
Click to expand...

Yes, I agree with you that most of the perceived problems in this game are usability and presentation style problems. The core engine of the game as intended by the devs, works fine as it is. But take for example the 3D port problem: there the form took over the function. Most of the reviewers complained about the port loading time although there has always been a setting to switch to 2D screen. But since it was hidden in the settings, not many people found out about it and complained. So, it was merely a presentation issue addressed by the patch, it seems.

I disagree with the notion that the devs didn't play the game. On the contrary, they probably played the game very much by themselves but didn't have sufficient time to fix the last mile cognitive kinks that are typically pointed out by the uninitate. I see this as a typical 'engineering usability' fallacy, which is something that can be fixed, if wanted.
 
Regnor Vex said:
Why would you expect the massive number of flaws in this game to be something that will be addressed any time soon? Can you cite an example of a game that launched in this bad a shape and then managed to recover to the point where it was well regarded in the game world?

Next.
Click to expand...

I remember one: Europa Universalis with its expansion In Nomine. From a good but with many faults and bugs game became a perfect one.

On the other side, I agree with K3ith that the economic model should be improved taking some ideas from Patrician and Port Royale. Be able to make manufactures to buy silk and dyes an produce our own textiles, a warehouse with an administrator to sell and buy products by themselves, manual routes, even the possibility to ask a loan (I can't believe there is no bank here), population in cities should change according with our trade and developement of factories (otherwise, demand is always the same and selling price will decrease everywhere as we balance the market with our trade)...
 
Regnor Vex said:
Why would you expect the massive number of flaws in this game to be something that will be addressed any time soon? Can you cite an example of a game that launched in this bad a shape and then managed to recover to the point where it was well regarded in the game world?
Click to expand...

Combat Mission: Shock Force.

Let's not forget the fact that Ascaron had a lot of experience when they made Patrician 3 (which was more of an addon than a new game). Nitro are new on the block. I don't want to sound like a fanboy, but I was waiting, too, for this game and I don't think constant whining is going to cheer them up (I'm not referring to you, K3ith). A sad worker is a bad worker. Do we want patches and DLCs? Let's tell 'em what went wrong.

The guys at Battlefront (Combat Mission series) took a lot of heat from the community when they made their last game. New engine, tons of bugs, half-baked features... Yet they're at their second expansion, the game now fully fleshed and functional. And they're getting more money than they expected, AFAIK.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I think I read somewhere that EIC was intended as a light simulation, capable of bringing in newcomers, so we shouldn't expect overly complex game rules. Still, K3ith has a point when he tells there are not many means of controlling the fleet.
 
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Wow, there's another Port Royale and Patrician veteran out there. Indeed those games seemed to have more stuff to do, especially building manufactories but on the other hand they are long dead while EIC is a new product with a whole bunch of people behind it so it has potential to grow.

I hope Nitro keep building upon the foundation EIC is and adding new stuff like Paradox did with EU3. :)
 
A good review, well written and from what I have seen of the demo fair. Having played the likes of Patrician and Port Royale myself, I agree with your comments on the simplicity of trade routes and the strange inability to have warehouses automatically sell at a certain price.
 
Keith, I absolutely agree with your opinion. I particularly agree that Nitro did not playtest the game enough, otherwise major problems like the port loading time would have become apparent.

Actually I am in the same situation as you and withheld my review to see if Nitro can come up with a solution, e.g. a big, content enhancing patch, and the announcement of a big addon.

The games presentation is first rate, but otherwise it's severely lacking in depth. From monitoring the forum I see a lot of people being unhappy about this already. People play for one, maybe two days and find that they have already seen everything. Really not enough content for a game that wants to be in a league with e.g. ETW.

Of all things I am dissapointeded most by the complete disregard for the real historic background. Considering that this is such an interesting period, and that was what dragged me most to this game.

Besides, the gameplay could see numerous improvements like a tech tree, rpg like stats of the commanders, interaction with foreign ports, more interesting port battles, storm and wind simulation, a bigger map, ...

However I still think that the engine is great, so I am willing to wait a little and see what comes out of this stage, i.e. the first public playtest.
 
Asso said:
Combat Mission: Shock Force.

Let's not forget the fact that Ascaron had a lot of experience when they made Patrician 3 (which was more of an addon than a new game). Nitro are new on the block. I don't want to sound like a fanboy, but I was waiting, too, for this game and I don't think constant whining is going to cheer them up (I'm not referring to you, K3ith). A sad worker is a bad worker. Do we want patches and DLCs? Let's tell 'em what went wrong.

The guys at Battlefront (Combat Mission series) took a lot of heat from the community when they made their last game. New engine, tons of bugs, half-baked features... Yet they're at their second expansion, the game now fully fleshed and functional. And they're getting more money than they expected, AFAIK.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I think I read somewhere that EIC was intended as a light simulation, capable of bringing in newcomers, so we shouldn't expect overly complex game rules. Still, K3ith has a point when he tells there are not many means of controlling the fleet.
Click to expand...

Great example, I was going to mention this if no one else did. IMO Paradox/Nitro is more likely to make improvements to their games based on forum feedback than many other companies out there.
 
GlobalExplorer said:
...

Actually I am in the same situation as you and withheld my review to see if Nitro can come up with a solution, e.g. a big, content enhancing patch, and the announcement of a big addon.

The games presentation is first rate, but otherwise it's severely lacking in depth. From monitoring the forum I see a lot of people being unhappy about this already. People play for one, maybe two days and find that they have already seen everything. Really not enough content for a game that wants to be in a league with e.g. ETW.

Of all things I am dissapointeded most by the complete disregard for the real historic background. Considering that this is such an interesting period, and that was what dragged me most to this game.

Besides, the gameplay could see numerous improvements like a tech tree, rpg like stats of the commanders, interaction with foreign ports, more interesting port battles, storm and wind simulation, a bigger map, ...

However I still think that the engine is great, so I am willing to wait a little and see what comes out of this stage, i.e. the first public playtest.
Click to expand...

I just want to play Devil's Advocate here
(Please don't regard this post as either defending Nitro & EIC or criticising Nitro & EIC)

But, who says the game was supposed to have more content?
Who says the game was supposed to have more historic background?
Or a tech tree? etc etc.

You say the engine is great and the presentation is first rate? So? Maybe the game is exactly as it was supposed to be?
Maybe it is supposed to be a 'casual game' in the age of sail?
Who says it wants to be in the same league as E:TW?
Maybe the game is exactly what Nitro wanted and that is all there will ever be?
In which case - what 'solution' are you waiting for exactly?

Interested in feedback on this.
 
czar1111 said:
I just want to play Devil's Advocate here
(Please don't regard this post as either defending Nitro & EIC or criticising Nitro & EIC)

But, who says the game was supposed to have more content?
Who says the game was supposed to have more historic background?
Or a tech tree? etc etc.

You say the engine is great and the presentation is first rate? So? Maybe the game is exactly as it was supposed to be?
Maybe it is supposed to be a 'casual game' in the age of sail?
Who says it wants to be in the same league as E:TW?
Maybe the game is exactly what Nitro wanted and that is all there will ever be?
In which case - what 'solution' are you waiting for exactly?

Interested in feedback on this.
Click to expand...

The problem with this, is the same exact issue with Simcity Societies back a few years ago. The "casual" gamer is not a PC gamer. They play the Wii, or another system, and they aren't the ones putting in hundreds of dollars into their computer to keep it top of the line. They are also not ones to purchase historical games in the first place.

Now why did I bring up Simcity Societies? Because that game killed a franchise because of its "Casual" gamer approach, which basically meant making everything really easy. I'm talking about SimTown easy. That point of easiness might make a few parents of 8 year olds happy, but it destroys the fanbase of the teenagers and adults who loved the series from the start.

From my experience with Paradox Interactive, they make games for actual gamers. And to give them credit, they make excellent games. But they make in depth games. Even if the graphics aren't top of the line, the gameplay is so....spot on, it keeps people playing.

EIC does the opposite. It's too...shallow. I like the game personally (until I can't even load a save file), but in the end, there needs to be more content to keep me playing longer than a few weeks. There just needs to be more fleshed out.

If Nitro wants this game to be it, and give people a "Take it or Leave it" company policy, their company will suffer from lacking and poor sales,and a very annoyed fanbase. If the fanbase is banging pots and pans for more, you give them more, since they are your loyal customers. Most of the people on here will be loyal customers, or they wouldn't give a shit about the game's forum.

Do I think that once this game is fleshed out and fixed, it'll be top of the line? Heck yes I do. The game already has the foundation, it just needs to build on it.
 
czar1111 said:
I just want to play Devil's Advocate here
(Please don't regard this post as either defending Nitro & EIC or criticising Nitro & EIC)

But, who says the game was supposed to have more content?
Who says the game was supposed to have more historic background?
Or a tech tree? etc etc.

You say the engine is great and the presentation is first rate? So? Maybe the game is exactly as it was supposed to be?
Maybe it is supposed to be a 'casual game' in the age of sail?
Who says it wants to be in the same league as E:TW?
Maybe the game is exactly what Nitro wanted and that is all there will ever be?
In which case - what 'solution' are you waiting for exactly?

Interested in feedback on this.
Click to expand...

Fair, but do you really think it was intended to be a casual game that gets repetitive after some hours? I don't think so. What they did say was "compromise between realistic and casual gameplay". But I understood that only as sacrificing realism for gameplay, not as sacrificing replayability altogether.
 
the devs are listening at least, as long asthey follow through, i think in general though with a lot of new titles the pressure is on from publishers and a certain amount of money is committed, deadlines set and without proper funding ( anyone remember lost empire immortals and the rush to get it out, the bugged nature , and the sales tanked) good titles result in good sales.

Bad titles with fancy graphics tank ( spore anyone) at least with spore EA have the funds to fix it up

Paradox is a bit different they plug away on a few titles , have steady and chaper prices and overall have ongoing sales.

EIC if they can quickly turn it into something better quickly can probably prop sales up.
 
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