Empire Breaking point?

[Gen.Armando]

Here's the deal:

Big MP game, planning to convert to Eu3 in 1399

what essentially started as a god forsaken suicide ops has evolved in an epic game. My friend started with the county of Reggio and I started with the ALMIGHTY KAISERIA

If you don't know where that is, I didn't either, it's somewhere in mid-eastern Turkey on the Grinding line with the Seljuk Turks

anyway, so I migrated south as I was getting eaten, and eventually formed the kingdom of jerusalem which in turn annexed the byzantine empire while my friend essentially formed the kingdom of italy while cutting himself north africa up to the nil, which is the frontier between our kingdoms. So here we are now, essentialy the western and eastern roman empires

I want to expand and cut myself the Caucasus, Iraq and Arabian peninsula. The thing I wonder is, WHAT IS THE BREAKING POINT? when is a kingdom too large? Since I know just too well in CK how you can lose everything quite quickly.

Another thing is, what culture do you recommand? for now im armenian, which isnt that useful. I tought about trying to switch over to greek...

 

[wobbit]

I've found it doesn't tend to be the size of the empire that causes it to collapse, but the number of vassals. If you incresase the size of your kingdom but keep the number of vassals the same (by granting existing ones new duke titles) you'll have much fewer problems than if you keep introducing new vassals. If you keep it to say 20 vassals then it should be relatively easy to keep them in line, especially given the huge ammounts of income you'll be making with your massive empire. If you split the land between 100 vassals then you're much more likely to suffer revolts of individual vassals (a lot of these are events on a "by vassal" rather than a "by kingdom" basis) which can trigger realm duress and full blown civil war.

Something to be more concerned about is the area into which you're expanding. You're heading into the regions where the mongols appear and this could be your undoing. Especially with another large empire sat on your western frontier. Alternatively, the mongols could just turn up, take one province and sit there with a massive army for the rest of the game. They're rather unpredictable.

As to culture, I don't think it makes any difference in CK. It will be more problematic in EU, so whatever is going to be good from that perspective is probably worth aiming for.

 

[Gen.Armando]

seems like a good idea, going to give my blood relative larger demesne instead of getting new vassals

between me and the mongols spawning point is the empire of the seljuk turks, I'd admit I would be pretty happy to see them collapse sooner than later

thanks for your answer

 

[unmerged(176048)]

I find that when I expand all kinds of counts will want to swear directly to me. Sometimes they'll break from their dukes to do so. This increases the number of vassals greatly.

On the other hand, if you claim all titles you conquer and give them to your dynasty your badboy will go through the roof.

 

[Gen.Armando]

up to date I didn't have too much problems with my reputation so in this area Im fine

my biggest problem is my scare of seeing a tenth of my empire trying to secede even if up to now my friend had most of the problem in this field, he was especialy unlucky with his heir and had quite a few rebellious vassals

 

[unmerged(175287)]

Sadly, it will come. It is inevitable *insert evil laugh here*

 

[Yakman]

when you get the right set of events, you'll have to worry about a lot more than a TENTH of your realm breaking away.

 

[Gen.Armando]

I've got a mutual assistance pact with the western roman empire, we totalize about 800 000 men together, we should be able to offer some... sort... of resistance no?

Still, that's what I love with CK, this feeling of always being on the razor even when powerful

 

[Yakman]

if you don't cheat, then a large realm is bound to have some hard times with CK.

the problem is that although now you can raise tons of men, when you get that wonderful "Realm Duress" trait, plus a weak ruler (a child, an idiot, an excommunicant, or a madman), your ability to raise those men quickly vanishes, and if you try to raise them, your vassals will become less loyal.

the problem is exacerbated in large, spread out realms.

the perfect storm is when you have a new, bad ruler, a line of bad successors behind him, you get excommunicated, you get Realm Duress, and you are at war with a powerful opponent (happens more often than you would think).

Personally, these are my favorite times in the game--when it is actually a challenge--and you should embrace them when they happen.

 

[wobbit]

Just a few additional points:

You will almost certainly get rebellions, but, as I mentioned before, you can minimise this by reducing the number of vassals. On top of ths use all the typical techniques to keep them loyal- run under feudal contract, keep scutage low and promote close family members to as many positions as you can. Don't be afraid to bribe your nobility, especially after a succession.

Try to avoid situations that will kill vassal loyalty. There are two main causes for this: getting a new king and having an existing king excommunicated. The first of these is inevitable, but you can still minimise the chances of it happening by avoiding choices that could lead to monarch death. For example, although the hunting series of events can give you some minor bonuses for taking risks, it's really not worth it for the chance that your king could die or get seriously injured (this often leads to death shortly thereafter). Excommunication is easier to avoid; just suck it up and do as the pope wants. Don't take actions that may result in immediate excommunication and be wary of actions that lead to sceptical or heretic. Keeping your piety high is also important, especially if you're neighbouring the papal controller.

Running your kingdom under elective law can also be a good way to prevent rebellion. It can be risky for your succession but if you've packed your empire with relatives then you should generally be ok- especially if you keep their domains fairly equal in size. Elective law lets you position competent relatives (including bastards) as your successor by granting them land rather than being reliant on your sons. It also lets you control the age of your successor- you (generally) want to avoid anyone who's still a child or anyone who's too old and likely to die within a year of taking office. Possibly most importantly, elective law allows you to redistribute lands relatively easily and painlessly. Each new king will be your largest vassal adding a huge chunk of land to the royal demense. This can be used to enlarge the lands of existing dukes to manipulate the next succession or retained by the king if he has a high enough intrige (spelling?).

 

[Gen.Armando]

Can I still get excommunicated if I'm orthodox?

Thanks to everyone by the way, your advices are very helpful each and every one of you

 

[Aat Jago]

Can I still get excommunicated if I'm orthodox?

IIRC, Orthodox ruler cannot be excommunicated. This only applies to Catholic ones.

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

Can I still get excommunicated if I'm orthodox?

Thanks to everyone by the way, your advices are very helpful each and every one of you

Yes, you can become excommunicated as an orthodox. But not by the Pope only by some events.

 

[Gen.Armando]

so that's a better protection than my friend's got against excommunications

how is elective law calculated?

which comes first, the size of the desmene, the size of the army, the martial skill... the titles....?

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

so that's a better protection than my friend's got against excommunications

how is elective law calculated?

which comes first, the size of the desmene, the size of the army, the martial skill... the titles....?

First titles, then the number of provinces that belong to that vassals realm (either sub-vassals or his demesne). If you don't have vassals, then your courtier with the highest base martial rating (base=withou the effects of traits) comes first.

 

[unmerged(151107)]

What I did when my ruler got excommunicated is that I grabbed all the titles of my disloyal vassals that were directly under the title of my Duke, gave those titles to my son and then gave him a Duke title so he formed his own realm. He then rules ~ 35 provinces (including vassals) and my excommunicated ruler rules directly on 6 or 7 provinces that he kept. Got a real bad reputation from this but I had no vassals at this point. Then when my Duke died the son inherited all the titles and I managed to save my realm that way.

 

[Gen.Armando]

Does having many duke titles wins over having more counties in elective law?

And what expansion area should I priorize? Arabian Peninsula? Irak? Ukraine? Georgia/Armenia?

 

[Snaake]

What I did when my ruler got excommunicated is that I grabbed all the titles of my disloyal vassals that were directly under the title of my Duke, gave those titles to my son and then gave him a Duke title so he formed his own realm. He then rules ~ 35 provinces (including vassals) and my excommunicated ruler rules directly on 6 or 7 provinces that he kept. Got a real bad reputation from this but I had no vassals at this point. Then when my Duke died the son inherited all the titles and I managed to save my realm that way.

I like this: when excommunicated (could be useful under realm duress?) just always take the lands of any rebellious vassals, grant them to your heir (damn, doesn't work under elective), who gets his own realm a bit earlier... it's basically abdicating from the big scheme of things to live out the rest of your life in retirement, with only your personal demesne. Your heir gets a clean slate when it comes to rebellious vassals, and tons of prestige due to all his titles, and when he inherits, your lands too (don't have to worry about vassal loyalty when he inherits, either, since your old ruler won't have any to pass on).

 

[Yakman]

Does having many duke titles wins over having more counties in elective law?

And what expansion area should I priorize? Arabian Peninsula? Irak? Ukraine? Georgia/Armenia?

when you are strong, go after your strongest enemy.

from what you've said, the seljuks are still going strong.

so go after them.

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

Does having many duke titles wins over having more counties in elective law?

IIRC more counties wins over more duke-titles