Event insulting to Christians

[StanczykNYC]

I suggest changing this event option's text:

I think it crosses the line just a little bit, as it carries a tone of gullibility or stupidity on the part of Christians. It also pokes fun at the religion with a specificity that makes me uncomfortable. I think a comparable example would be an event choice to, say, rebuff a Muslim diplomat with an option like, "Offer the ambassador some pork!"

I've always found Paradox's games to be remarkably impartial, so I was surprised to come across this. I don't think the line reveals some kind of disdain for Christianity or religion in general, and is at worst unintentionally rude.

 

[pphair]

I think you're just being overly sensitive. I personally see it as chuckleworthy.

 

[RedBaronFlyer]

I don't really see a problem with it, even as a Christian.

I kinda wish that there were events like this, be it religion, government, or whatever

 

[ConjurerDragon]

I suggest changing this event option's text:...

I think it crosses the line just a little bit, as it carries a tone of gullibility or stupidity on the part of Christians. It also pokes fun at the religion with a specificity that makes me uncomfortable. I think a comparable example would be an event choice to, say, rebuff a Muslim diplomat with an option like, "Offer the ambassador some pork!"

I've always found Paradox's games to be remarkably impartial, so I was surprised to come across this. I don't think the line reveals some kind of disdain for Christianity or religion in general, and is at worst unintentionally rude.

We call ourselves european to this day, for a stupid migrant tramp from the levant who fell for a bull that presumably was god Zeus who took her for a swim to Crete. Whatever appears in Paradox games’s can’t top that.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europa_(mythology)

 

[tditdatdwt]

I don't "respectfully" disagree, I just disagree. You need to chill out man, it's not like Christianity is accurate in any way.. anyway.

 

[Vetgirig]

Virgin births is not only part of Christian religions. Others have the same sort of story:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miraculous_births

 

[Grand Historian]

I don't really find the event offensive, but I agree it's not necessarily tactful, either.

I don't "respectfully" disagree, I just disagree. You need to chill out man, it's not like Christianity is accurate in any way.. anyway.

I don't "respectfully" disagree, I just disagree.

 

[StanczykNYC]

I don't "respectfully" disagree, I just disagree. You need to chill out man, it's not like Christianity is accurate in any way.. anyway.

The plausibility of a religion now determines how respectfully it is treated in Europa Univeralis?


I have played PDX games for 16 years. I consider the impartiality they provide to be one of the main selling points of their games. This event choice violates that.

I think you're just being overly sensitive. I personally see it as chuckleworthy.

I considered that as well. I thought this was written by some Swede who thought he was part of the Christian in-group enough that he could poke fun at it this way. However, making fun of the virgin birth goes too far.

Maybe PDX can make fun of Mohammad for hearing voices inside his head next?

I don't consider it some awful transgression. I just ask that a people be treated with respect. This joke goes slightly too far.

 

[Vortic Gangster]

The thing is, the events are typically told in the perspective of your current nation/king, whom will understandably think that Christianity is idiotic/false/whatever depending on its/his religion, which means that the situation you detailed above would be pretty expected and appropriate for your nation/king to say, so I really don't see the problem here...

Apologies in advance for relatively sub-par grammar if there is any, trying desperately to learn how to use commas properly when typing in English.

 

[StanczykNYC]

The thing is, the events are typically told in the perspective of your current nation/king, whom will understandably think that Christianity is idiotic/false/whatever depending on its/his religion, which means that the situation you detailed above would be pretty expected and appropriate for your nation/king to say, so I really don't see the problem here...

Apologies in advance for relatively sub-par grammar if there is any, trying desperately to learn how to use commas properly when typing in English.

Jews are the Christ-killers and deserve every bit of suffering they get.

I speak from the perspective of the European king. It's totally innocent and inoffensive... and entirely suitable for a Europe Universalis game.

-
This game is supposed to be above this kind of stuff.

 

[Vortic Gangster]

Jews are the Christ-killers and deserve every bit of suffering they get.

I speak from the perspective of the European king. It's totally innocent and inoffensive... and entirely suitable for a Europe Universalis game.

If "The European King" had that mindset then yes, it is suitable... I'm sorry but you might be taking this game a bit too seriously if you are being offended by it...

 

[lequinow]

Jews are the Christ-killers and deserve every bit of suffering they get.

That would indeed be quite inapropriate (although still acceptable amongst quite obnoxious decisions towards the "peasants rabble" or the "ungrateful natives") and that's why this kind of remark is not in the game. But a banter towards the surnatural beliefs of the people isn't quite the same as mocking their commons or wishing suffering upon their believers.

 

[Cagliostro]

It's a little tactless, but I don't think it's that severe. Virgin birth is at the very least extremely implausible, and any Christian should realize this. Like, if you have never heard someone joke about the virgin birth, you don't get out enough.

 

[StanczykNYC]

It's a little tactless, but I don't think it's that severe. Virgin birth is at the very least extremely implausible, and any Christian should realize this. Like, if you have never heard someone joke about the virgin birth, you don't get out enough.

Gee, you're right. Christians should be held to a different standard because the idea of the a virgin birth is implausible. The fact that you have to bring up the Virgin Birth as plausible or implausible proves the point!

It's a little tactless, but I don't think it's that severe.

That sounds a bit like how I started the topic.

Like, if you have never heard someone joke about the virgin birth, you don't get out enough

Like, Jews are Christ killers and usurous money-changers, har har. It's common knowledge, and therefor acceptable in polite company and history games?

The event text goes too far when it tried to make fun of Christians as gullible people who believe in virgin birth.

That would indeed be quite inapropriate (although still acceptable amongst quite obnoxious decisions towards the "peasants rabble" or the "ungrateful natives") and that's why this kind of remark is not in the game. But a banter towards the surnatural beliefs of the people isn't quite the same as mocking their commons or wishing suffering upon their believers.

Well, that's totally different from mocking the very basis of their beliefs, isn't it?

So long as the religion's foundation is flimsy, Europa Universalis can mock it and still hold its head high?

 

[DanubianCossak]

I would recommend that you make a conscious choice not to be insulted by something silly like this.

Because making a conscious choice to be insulted is even sillier IMO.

Though knowing Swedes they probably will change it

 

[Cagliostro]

Like, Jews are Christ killers and usurous money-changers, har har. It's common knowledge, and therefor acceptable in polite company and history games?

This comparison is absurd and frankly *extremely* offensive. Jews for thousands of years have been systematically *murdered* for the specific charges you are now suggesting are somehow roughly equivalent.

Christians have been oppressed or murdered under certain regimes, but not because they believed in virgin birth. There are jokes about the virgin birth made in mainstream comedy throughout the Christian world, and have been for at least thirty years. I have seen comments made in numerous American sitcoms.

The idea that you think that these two are even similar is pretty ludicrous. Honestly, I was far more sympathetic to your argument before you started down that avenue. You could have made the point, perhaps, that the virgin birth of Jesus is also attested in the Qur'an. Or made the point that they wouldn't casually joke about, say, Hindu idols. Instead, you chose a religious minority that has been exterminated, and the specific *reasoning* behind their extermination, and compared a casual comment about someone else's beliefs with the *blaming of a minority for murdering their savior*.

 

[Vaximillian]

I don't "respectfully" disagree, I just disagree. You need to chill out man, it's not like Christianity is accurate in any way.. anyway.

I disrespectfully disagree.

 

[TinyWiking]

I'm locking this thread as it has already taken a turn for the worse and I don't expect it to recover.
OP, thank you for your post, your concerns are noted though I can't make any promise that things will change.