Fall of the Tang Start date - East Asia modding thoughts

[Bloodmerchant]

Tang dynasty starts out as the Chinese Empire, but with much less direct control and many of its military governor-vassals were very much like feudal lords and are rebellious.

Chinese provinces would be divided based on the zhou system used during the late Tang to Song dynasties. The Chinese Empire would also be a createable, but also usurpable title.

Holy wars would be non-existent or nerfed, allowing for a much stable game.

Non-Sinitic rulers holding Chinese-cultured provinces in the Chinese Empire proper would eventually convert to a Sinitic culture, representing Sinicization of non-Chinese rulers, such as that of the Shatuo Turks, the Jurchens, the Khitans and the Mongol Yuan dynasty.

Possibility of polygamy and concubinage. Children born to concubines would be considered to be bastards unless if legitimately recognized. I wonder if there is a possibility for male bastards to pass on the dynasty line unless if they are considered to be lowborn.

The main issue I have with CK2 in regards to a possibility of a Chinese-culture mod is the implementation of regnal names and personal names, as well as posthumous names.

The start date ranges would be from 890.1.1 to 943.1.1 (Wang Yanzheng's rebellion from the Kingdom of Min to establish the titular kingdom of Yin)

Chinese rulers holding a province of a different culture (if not bordering a province of their own culture within their demesne) would eventually convert to the provinces' culture, to represent acculturation of non-native rulers to the native culture.

Culture would be harder to convert than in CK2.

Heretics, I haven't thought of an idea for heretics yet, but they could declare holy war.

Oh, and who could forget about the Mongols?

Any thoughts?

 

[Callendor]

Sounds promising. Chinese politics will fit well into CK2 (but a huge change of all the flavour is required).

 

[Joel M Bridge]

what is the zhou system, if I remeber correct did not china enovled from fedual warlord, to massive buercary empire?

 

[Bloodmerchant]

During the late Tang period, the imperial court gave estates to generals who eventually became powerful warlords in their own right, thus mimicking the second feudal system in China. After the fall of the Tang, most of the generals all claimed the throne of the Chinese empire, with the exception of Qian Liu, the king of Wuyue. Once imperial authority was weakened, and more of these regional generals had more control over their estates, then the Age of Fragmentation began. These mechanics work well with CK2, not so with EU3 since it was characters, not nations that changed the face of China. The Five Dynasties and Ten Kingdoms period, is in my opinion, the most pivotal era in the formation of modern Chinese cultural identity. Not to mention during this time period is when the Vietnamese under Ngo Quyen rebelled against one of the Ten Kingdoms, Yue/Southern Han and its ruler, Liu Yan at around 938, at the battle of Bach Dang River.

The zhou was just an administrative territorial division, very similar to a circuit. No, not the Zhou dynasty, it's a different word.

The game would probably be about 550 years long, at least until 1453, enough to cover the Mongol invasions as well as the possibility of a Timurid invasion of China.

Also the first start date would be 890, so the player could have the chance to play as the declining Tang dynasty with rebellious vassals.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jiedushi Jiedushi is a proper term for these military governors-turned feudal lords. They can tax their subjects or even pass their titles hereditarily.

 

[Bloodmerchant]

what is the zhou system, if I remeber correct did not china enovled from fedual warlord, to massive buercary empire?

Keep in mind this is the the time within the Five Dynasties and Ten Kingdoms period.

Have you ever heard of the terms jiedushi (節度使) or fanzhen (藩鎮) before? These types of rulers were well in use during the Tang period. Since they, like feudal rulers can conscript their own armies, tax their subjects as well as pass their titles hereditarily.