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First Crusade - Unimpressed

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unmerged(229072)

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Sep 30, 2010
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I'm playing as the Duchy of Munster. own 9 of the 14 irish provinces, iceland and Acre. Then the Pope calls a crusade to liberate Burgos. Which is cool coz its just a hope over the pond from Ireland. So we go and beat up the Emirate of Bjurana (sp?) and take Burgos, a few months later the Pope declares its a success, yay! but no thanks or rewards to taking the place single handedly. I usually get a 0.5 piety lose for not participating in the crusades (but even as i held Burgos i still had a 0.1)

Just wondered it this was normal.

Also - do u lose reputation for not going to help ur allies?
 
Darreningym said:
I'm playing as the Duchy of Munster. own 9 of the 14 irish provinces, iceland and Acre. Then the Pope calls a crusade to liberate Burgos. Which is cool coz its just a hope over the pond from Ireland. So we go and beat up the Emirate of Bjurana (sp?) and take Burgos, a few months later the Pope declares its a success, yay! but no thanks or rewards to taking the place single handedly. I usually get a 0.5 piety lose for not participating in the crusades (but even as i held Burgos i still had a 0.1)

Just wondered it this was normal.

Also - do u lose reputation for not going to help ur allies?
Click to expand...

You get piety boosts for taking non-christian provinces during a crusade. Also I believe you get a one time piety bonus when the crusade ends if you hold the target province. Not completely sure about that though.

Every christian ruler loses piety during the crusades, even if you conquer half the muslim world during the crusades (the piety boost for each province makes up for the crusade expectations). So that is working as designed. The piety loss is dependent on the size of your realm. So that as a 1-province count you won't lose much, as it is not expected that you can field a large army and go travelling with it. But if you hold half of Catholic Europe, it will be quite high ... especially if you also have the Crusader trait.

There are no ill effects to not honoring call of arms by allies .... just as they don't when they leave you to your own fate when you call for allies :)
 
You should have gottend a 1-time piety bonus when you took the crusade-target. The bonus depands on how important the target is. So Jerusalem should give you a much higher piety-bonus then Burgos.

When I go crusading against Jerusalem I usually end with +1000 piety.

Also do you perhaps have 'money-lenders' in your demesne, this will make you lose piety every month (and is not shown in any tool-tip).
 
sweet, thanks guys. It was only Burgos so i probably didnt notice it. I have like 400 or so piety, so enough that a slight bonus would slip by. I guess i was just expecting some kind of formal acknowledgement of my victory over the heathen!!

Also in another game, as Sweden. My vassel got attacked and when i declared war on the attackers i got a big reputation lose.

Is their a way to speed up reduction of theives guilds, smugglers etc. Does anything affect that other then stability or is it just random events?
 
One more thing. I got invaded by the Kingdom of Al-Khamm(something-something) in spain. I held of their armies until he departed, then i took 7 of his provinces and had a war score of 230. tried to conclude peace and got declined. Tried again, giving him 3 provinces, still declined (warscore 230vs80 peace). Then he must have disbanded his army somewhere else, cause suddenly he reraised his regiments in the territories i controlled!! how is that possible? Surely i would have soldiers around in his towns and villages to stop him being able to raise whole orderly regiments. (too realistic i know). Also this guy had an income of -200, how the hell can he support this armies for so long (the war was into its 3rd year). he would be 7200gold down and get all kinds of negative financial events if a player, yet he continued to field his army and maintain order in his provinces regardless

so the question is: are there certain mechanics behind the peace process which mean that the AI just continues fighting no matter what, until you actually defeat every last one of their heathen troops and capture all their provencies?
 
Darreningym said:
One more thing. I got invaded by the Kingdom of Al-Khamm(something-something) in spain. I held of their armies until he departed, then i took 7 of his provinces and had a war score of 230. tried to conclude peace and got declined. Tried again, giving him 3 provinces, still declined (warscore 230vs80 peace). Then he must have disbanded his army somewhere else, cause suddenly he reraised his regiments in the territories i controlled!! how is that possible? Surely i would have soldiers around in his towns and villages to stop him being able to raise whole orderly regiments. (too realistic i know). Also this guy had an income of -200, how the hell can he support this armies for so long (the war was into its 3rd year). he would be 7200gold down and get all kinds of negative financial events if a player, yet he continued to field his army and maintain order in his provinces regardless

so the question is: are there certain mechanics behind the peace process which mean that the AI just continues fighting no matter what, until you actually defeat every last one of their heathen troops and capture all their provencies?
Click to expand...

AI can't go into debt ... as it is not smart enough to handle its finances. The alternative would probably be that all AI controlled provinces would end up with no improvements and stripped bare, down to a hill fort. This would impact their armies, and you as the smart player, would eventually be able to walk all over even the biggest empire, as it n only field a handful of men, and you could siege their provinces in a week.

It was a neccessity to keep the human player challenged.

The AI also don't like to give up. As long as he thinks he might be able to win, he will continue the fight. So even if you control 7 of his 8 provines, he will soldier on if he still has a big army fielded.
 
I agree. You usually need to defeat his armies to force a peace. Even if you occupy all his provinces, the levies fight on.

Edit: The other thing is to declare war on the vassals of Muslim countries, and take them over first, either recognize their claims and vassalize them or annex them.
 
RedRooster81 said:
I agree. You usually need to defeat his armies to force a peace. Even if you occupy all his provinces, the levies fight on.

Edit: The other thing is to declare war on the vassals of Muslim countries, and take them over first, either recognize their claims and vassalize them or annex them.
Click to expand...

Well, once you control all of his personal demesne provinces, you can force any kind of peace on him. It will be accepted automatically.
 
Thanks guys. So basically im just going to muster the majority of my vassels and go destroy this guy. Is it possible for me to muster my regiments to avoid the loyality hit when i muster vassels, and then disband mine and keep all theirs in the field? im not to worried about loyality right now though, most of them are 100% with +7% a month so even a 20pt hit will be absorbed quickly. Thanks again, tons of useful insight. I believe he had a large army floating around in his kingdom on the african mainland, which he disbanded and remustered. I guess from a realist POV its not actually the same men getting mustered, just others, who perhaps didnt make the cut.

Another question: A few times, ive gone into battle thinking i had a 6000vs4000 advantage but once battle commences i only have 1000 guys (with several of my other commanders with the red arrow over their portraits (routed?). Is there a good way of gauging how many of my men are actually combat ready before i actually commit?
 
Darreningym said:
Then he must have disbanded his army somewhere else, cause suddenly he reraised his regiments in the territories i controlled!! how is that possible?
Click to expand...

What I think happened was: the AI got an event to recruit mercs. Those weren't actually their levies, but merc troops.

As for the other issue of routing: You can select regiments and in the info display you can see their morale, when it's low they stop fighting.
 
Darreningym said:
Is it possible for me to muster my regiments to avoid the loyality hit when i muster vassels, and then disband mine and keep all theirs in the field?
Click to expand...

Yes ... you can muster your own troops (I believe you need 50% mustered to not get a loyalty hit), and then disband them afterwards.
 
Negru Voda said:
What I think happened was: the AI got an event to recruit mercs. Those weren't actually their levies, but merc troops.

As for the other issue of routing: You can select regiments and in the info display you can see their morale, when it's low they stop fighting.
Click to expand...

well i noticed that his regiment had come up again in the lands i controlled (like the little man had reappeared) then suddenly he remustered an army in all 7 of the provinces i held, so im not sure.

Thanks all, i shall be back later after using AI to defeat AI!
 
Darreningym said:
well i noticed that his regiment had come up again in the lands i controlled (like the little man had reappeared) then suddenly he remustered an army in all 7 of the provinces i held, so im not sure.
Click to expand...

Oh, in that case I dunno, weird situation.

As for the mustering without loyalty hit: TempestDK is right I think. But I also think if you formally request that the vassal mobilize for you it will solve the problem. It takes a few days/weeks longer though, and there is the chance that the vassal will refuse and that's when there's a loyalty loss (but you also get a claim to their title I think)
 
Dagda said:
If you have the crusader trait. Otherwise it's waaaaay less than that.

Overall crusading isn't really worth the cost unless you can cheaply grab the target.
Click to expand...

I just ignore crusades now. It makes no sense to cross the whole Mediterranean (which take six months or it feels that long) to land in Palestine, when there are Muslims closer at hand, if you want to take land without worrying about claims. Or if you are in the Baltic, you've got pagans from Lubeck to Lapland. The worst thing is when a little count declares war on Egypt, Damascus, or the Seljuk Turks and expects for the whole kingdom to follow him (he never actually goes to the Holy Land himself).
 
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