Fleets using fuel while being stationary

[CantThinkOfAName233]

I just got the game (with FTM and SF DLC) and started as Italy. Apart from some initial organisation, I did not touch my fleet at all. However since the start the game until now (1939), the fleets seem to be constantly using my oil, to the point that both my crude oil and refined oil stockpile is running empty. I know technically ships still require fuel even when at port, but if a fleet at port can just empty the entire country, I wonder why they build it in the first place

Am I doing something wrong, or this is just a feature of the game?

My current fuel tooltip:
-17.82 used
+ 4.38 returned to stockpile

Crude oil:
-47 converted
+4.25 converted

 

[Death_Korpsman]

Yes It's a "feature". Any unit that uses fuel is going to use a little bit even with no mission/sitting still. I wish there was a way to mothball equipment into storage, probably losing all the unit XP and having an activation time and IC cost to get it going again, but that's beyond the scope of the base game.

Italy starts out pretty resource starved as I recall, though it's been years since I gave them a go. Recommendation is to start your campaign as early as possible and aggressively trade for all the resources you can get in exchange for supplies. Basically your starting economy before full war breaks out is a supply->cash->resources economy where you have to burn IC on extra supplies to trade for enough money to buy what you need in trade. Also stock up on convoys to make sure your trades go through. If the AI trade isn't getting you enough fuel, and this game's AI has always been spotty, then you should manually start making trades with whoever you can to build up your fuel stockpile as much as possible. Getting some trade agreements with big oil/fuel producers before you activate the clock at the beginning of a game can go a long way towards meeting your needs. If you take most of your objectives in N. Africa and Greece you still won't be fuel independent unless you get into the territory around the Persian Gulf which is a possibility mid-to late game if you make good headway against the British.

Another factor with fuel use is where your fleets are home ported. The game will move fuel out of your stockpile into supply dumps anyplace that isn't connected by land to your capital, so if you have fleets or fuel using land units/aircraft scattered throughout the Mediterranean, or Africa, or wherever your stockpile will shrink. It isn't lost, but it's kind of invisible until it gets used or refunded. If you move all your fuel guzzlers back to Italy that issue will stop until you start moving them overseas again.

It might also be worth getting rid of some of the units that you don't really need. Ships with low upgrades that are gobbling up fuel but are just going to get sunk without doing any damage in their first battle, for example. Worth a look.

 

[roverS3]

All great points by @Death_Korpsman . Let me just add the following.

Both historically (before they found oil in Libya post-war), and in game, Italy is very short on fuel. It is imperative for Italy to make an active effort to stockpile a lot of fuel before the war. Historically, the Regia Marina was severely hamstrung by fuel shortages, making it far less active and impactful than it could have been. The same goes for rare materials which Italy is also short on. Some of this shortage can be mitigated by invading Romania, though that does result in Italy taking away fuel that would normally be used by other Axis powers anyway. (Romania usually ends up selling most of it's surplus to Axis powers, most notably Germany) Other alternatives are Saudi Arabia and Persia, which aren't too hard to take out.

For the rest, it definitely matters where your ships are located as even when they're not moving the AI will periodically send out fuel towards them. While ships, planes, and mobile forces that aren't moving use very little fuel, transporting fuel also costs fuel, be it over land, or by convoys. The AI will stockpile fuel in the location your fleets are located, especially if they are based overseas. This fuel disappears from your overall stockpile, but it does still exist. Therefore, the best place to base your fleet in peacetime is as close to your capital as possible. The same goes for Air Units, and within reason, for gas guzzling land units.

Other things to look at are technologies like synthetic fuels... 'coal to crude conversion', but only if you have a significant coal surplus, and Oil Refining which increases the amount of fuel you get for each unit of crude oil. That said, it's probably a more efficient use of leadership to trade more aggressively and build up a massive surplus before the war.

 

[50shadesofgreen]

I'm guessing your fuel requirement is so low that you have already put your fleet under a full layer of Log Wiz generals and the best level theatre commander?

There is a fuel tax as fuel is moved province to province. I recall that although supply is sourced from Rome, the nearest port is one province away. You could eliminate this waste by either building a port in Rome and basing the fleet there. Or basing the fleet off the mainland in somewhere like Sardinia and conveying the fuel there. Fuel gets teleported free of tax to the start of the convoy and arrives without incurring a loss ( I believe).

The supply tech on the theory page that reduces the supply transportation tax also ( i believe/hope) reduces the fuel transportation tax.

Another thought would be to slowly increase your industry so to boost your coal to oil conversion.

As already suggested, taking Romania boosts your oil. Having them in your Axis should also give you access to their oil refinery Strategic Resource.

 

[50shadesofgreen]

Anyone know what the ratio is between fuel used in port vs fuel used while moving or in combat? Is there a modifier accessible in a file somewhere that could be easily changed?

 

[GarfunkeL]

You should get TFH because it helps a lot with fixing bunch of issues in HoI3. There really is no reason not to play with the latest expansion - Their Finest Hour. Most players here won't even remember what the game was like before TFH came along. SF and FTM still had lot more rough edges.

 

[Kovax]

Normally, GER has insane amounts of coal at the start, and Italy has access to Rare Materials which GER needs. A few trades and both are much better off. Coal is converted to oil and oil to fuel at rates depending on your "effective" IC and certain techs, so the more IC you have, the more oil you can convert from coal and the more fuel you can convert from oil. Certain Industrial techs also increase the amount of oil you get from each unit of coal, and the amount of fuel you get from a unit of oil, so keeping those up to date helps.

Buying oil is expensive, but buying fuel is economically crippling, and after the economy settles down a bit, a gazillion countries will offer to sell you Fuel. Buy oil from Romania (or better yet, take it once your Neutrality is low enough), from various Arabic states, or even from the US, but don't waste your money on Fuel.

You can create a chain of command up to a Theater HQ from any land division, attach all of your naval assets to that Theater, and then detach the land unit. Put a Logistics Wizard (skill level is irrelevant) in charge, and his trait bonus will give your navy a modest reduction in both supply and fuel usage as long as they remain in command range (which should easily cover the entire Mediterranean).

Some of your fuel "usage" may actually be sending that fuel and supplies to overseas depots such as East Africa. You can end up with massive amounts of supplies and fuel in places that will never need it. Check your Supply map overlay to see where it's going and how much you've got stockpiled in distant places.

 

[unmerged(76390)]

Normally, GER has insane amounts of coal at the start, and Italy has access to Rare Materials which GER needs. A few trades and both are much better off. Coal is converted to oil and oil to fuel at rates depending on your "effective" IC and certain techs, so the more IC you have, the more oil you can convert from coal and the more fuel you can convert from oil. Certain Industrial techs also increase the amount of oil you get from each unit of coal, and the amount of fuel you get from a unit of oil, so keeping those up to date helps.

Buying oil is expensive, but buying fuel is economically crippling, and after the economy settles down a bit, a gazillion countries will offer to sell you Fuel. Buy oil from Romania (or better yet, take it once your Neutrality is low enough), from various Arabic states, or even from the US, but don't waste your money on Fuel.

You can create a chain of command up to a Theater HQ from any land division, attach all of your naval assets to that Theater, and then detach the land unit. Put a Logistics Wizard (skill level is irrelevant) in charge, and his trait bonus will give your navy a modest reduction in both supply and fuel usage as long as they remain in command range (which should easily cover the entire Mediterranean).

Some of your fuel "usage" may actually be sending that fuel and supplies to overseas depots such as East Africa. You can end up with massive amounts of supplies and fuel in places that will never need it. Check your Supply map overlay to see where it's going and how much you've got stockpiled in distant places.

Your last point is a really good one. As I've mentioned in a different post this is an item I need to pay attention to in my UK play through. I'm send crap all over only for it to sit there when someone takes that province.