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WingedLion14

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Jul 17, 2013
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Families have been since the beginning of Imperator one of the most important, yet simultaneously least dynamic, aspects of the political system, with the only important things simply being the loyalty of the family head and making sure that each family has enough posts. I'd like to propose fleshing them out by creating family households.

Every Great Family has a household, led by the head of the family, which includes its family members, their wives, family holdings, and employees. Households employ a variety of characters (giving more opportunities for characters to earn wages and thus amass wealth, as well as statesmanship); these roles include:
1. Family tutor - educates the children in the family
2. Orator - defends family members in trials, increases popularity of family head
3. Steward - manages family estates, gives bonuses to productivity in provinces owned by family head, as well as increased income for family
4. Scribe - in charge of letters, grants Senate seats to party of faction head
5. Household Guard - head of the household guard, decreases assassination chance, has potential loyal cohorts in event of civil war (size depends on wealth of family); cannot be from family

These jobs need not be held by members of the family, and in the case of the Household Guard, cannot be; instead, Great Families can hire members of Minor Families to fill positions in their household, giving more novi homines the opportunity to rise in the ranks of the political system. Furthermore, I would make it that members of Minor Families, when they generate, generate with one male and one female, in order to increase number of potential wives, and that a member of a Minor Family can have children if married to a member of a Great Family (they would have, by default, one living boy and girl at a time, in order to keep the number of characters down but also allow minor families to develop some sort of lineage). Lastly, in order for a member of a Great Family to adopt minor characters, rather than the free-for-all that has existed, it must be somebody who is both within your own household and married to a member of your family; however, because of this, the player can still ask minor characters who are married to divorce their wife, so long as their wife is not a member of another Great Family.

Once a character enters public office, they leave their post in the household, although minor characters that have previously received employment will remember their previous benefactor, considering the head of the household a friend. This should allow for a fairly regular turnover of employed characters, giving wages and statesmanship to younger characters so that they're ready to hold office as soon as possible, especially in a Republic. And of course, I should note that in monarchies, this system would be superfluous (most of this is already handled by the formal political offices), so it only exists for non-ruling families in monarchies.

Overall, this will create a world that feels more "lived in," giving characters a way to have a career before entering the political arena (or afterwards), as well as help the power of families ebb and flow over the course of the game (a family head that is able to consistently fill his staff with high-ranking officials should be a major political threat, but if his heir is an imbecile and unable to make good hires, then it should be able to come crashing down).
 
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I really like this suggestion. Making families into a little "state within a state" complete with their own finances and appointments would seem to be an excellent way to expand the important of families / characters without divering significantly from Imperator's state-centric point of view.
 
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Yeah, this is very good.

My immediate thought though: should these household-jobs really count towards employment in all the same ways as the existing "country-level" jobs? ... wouldn't it be pretty cool to have them be secondary such that characters could sometimes have country-level jobs while also having a household-level responsibility -- that's how it works for heads of family and faction-leaders after all... also, this would make an opening for women to play more of a role even in patriarchal societies...
 
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We’ve decided to vote for your suggestion, but it was a very narrow decision.

Making families more important and bringing back minor families is necessary, but otherwise your proposal is too Rome-centric, while the game urgently needs more diversity.

How would Households work in:
  • Tribes?
  • Monarchies?
  • city states and small local powers?
  • different cultures (India, Scythians etc.)?
There should be different mechanics, offices etc. for these cases.
 
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We’ve decided to vote for your suggestion, but it was a very narrow decision.

Making families more important and bringing back minor families is necessary, but otherwise your proposal is too Rome-centric, while the game urgently needs more diversity.

How would Households work in:
  • Tribes?
  • Monarchies?
  • city states and small local powers?
  • different cultures (India, Scythians etc.)?
There should be different mechanics, offices etc. for these cases.

You're absolutely right, the game needs more diversity, and my proposal is very Rome-centric - I am a Roman historian, after all. I'm not 100% certain how they might differ in the Hellenistic kingdoms, although honestly, I'm not sure they would need to differ all that much; aristocrats at this time generally have estates, and hire people to manage them. Tribes, of course, are a different story - but then again, I'm of the opinion that tribal mechanics should have their own sets of mechanics entirely, since the city-based aristocracies of Italy and the East aren't applicable to Germania, Gallia, and Britannia.

Fortunately, other people who are experts in these areas can be tapped to flesh out mechanics that fill this sort of role for those cultures.
 
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I'm not totally sold on the added complexity of family household positions but my favorite part of playing as a merchant republic in CK2 was building up the family holdings. CK2 Merchant Republics are the closest thing we have to republic great families. We already have generic holdings as a basic game feature. Introducing a way to expand that could be fun. Generating events based on family holdings improvements could be a source for added dynamic gameplay. Also generic holdings could have events such as a cruel governor confiscating a family holding within his region. Events could spawn where characters visiting their holdings would interact with the local governor and provide province buffs or debuffs depending on the outcome.

I haven't played as a tribe or kingdom since coming back to Imperator recently. If they don't have a great family mechanic then I can understand how they could feel more generic.
 
Absolutely wonderful suggestion!

This would be awesome and add much to the way politics are done.

Furthermore it might be based on ancient Rome HOWEVER while there are naturally differences in how an Etruscan or Greek elite kinship group might operate I find that it looks like a solid foundation and lets remember that Rome wasn't a total snowflake in every way.

I am more inclined to think that the Roman social system was a product of a general Italic way of society than a totally unique thing. And I can see how this system could be used by the Greeks as well.

Its better with a system that is good, close enough to history and is fun to play with than agonizing oneself into inaction because everything won't perfectly fit with history.
 
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