Re flickering screen at random interals. My problem was cured by removing a small utility I had than ran in the backround; a small program that was supposed to reduce the temperature of AMD Athlon by reducing the load. Software temperature control has become quite common, I wonder if others are having problem??
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Yup a flicker problem is 90% caused by something running in the background.
Good catch by you for figuring which one was effecting you, another popular candidate is the Music Match processes, quite a few people have problems with them.
Good catch by you for figuring which one was effecting you, another popular candidate is the Music Match processes, quite a few people have problems with them.
Yes, ABIT EQ was doing it to me.
It's a shame I have to turn it off because it keeps my fans running at a quieter speed.
It's a shame I have to turn it off because it keeps my fans running at a quieter speed.
Interesting, I don't use anything like that myself, so thanks for pointing these things out to me.
AMD have a habit of running VERY hot >70C. I have resortred to the old fan outside the box again, and covers off. 
Gets pretty hot down here in Cairns, so temp is an issue.
Still, no flickering is the object; who cares if the proccessor melts
Gets pretty hot down here in Cairns, so temp is an issue.
Still, no flickering is the object; who cares if the proccessor melts
Basically, any program that for one reason or another thinks it needs to do something with it's main Window, can cause flicker.
Take the Trillian IRC program, for example. The 0.74 beta version is very simple and straight forward. Does nothing fancy at all, and thus will not cause flicker. Now, if you take the new version 3.0 basic, that one tries to maintain it's relative position on the desktop whenever the desktop size changes. So, if you run a DirectX game with a different resoluition than the desktop, it tries to reposition itself. This is done by a call to the SetWindowPos API function call.
Unfortunately, if this is called with the wrong parameters (ie. not specify both SWP_NOACTIVATE and SWP_NOZORDER as flags), then as a result of the repositioning, the Window will be activated and given focus. This, of course, switches focus away from the DirectX game and thus from the DirectX full screen image back to the desktop. After this message has been processed, the DirectX environment will refocus itself, switching back to the DirectX full screen image. When this happens during a vertical refresh cycle of a frame, you will see the screen flicker.
In short, it's an error in the background program that causes the flicker.
Jan Peter
Take the Trillian IRC program, for example. The 0.74 beta version is very simple and straight forward. Does nothing fancy at all, and thus will not cause flicker. Now, if you take the new version 3.0 basic, that one tries to maintain it's relative position on the desktop whenever the desktop size changes. So, if you run a DirectX game with a different resoluition than the desktop, it tries to reposition itself. This is done by a call to the SetWindowPos API function call.
Unfortunately, if this is called with the wrong parameters (ie. not specify both SWP_NOACTIVATE and SWP_NOZORDER as flags), then as a result of the repositioning, the Window will be activated and given focus. This, of course, switches focus away from the DirectX game and thus from the DirectX full screen image back to the desktop. After this message has been processed, the DirectX environment will refocus itself, switching back to the DirectX full screen image. When this happens during a vertical refresh cycle of a frame, you will see the screen flicker.
In short, it's an error in the background program that causes the flicker.
Jan Peter
Yup that part I knew from previous discussion, I just don't have a list of all the ones that do that.
I just tried another cpu cooler, CpuIdle, and flickering occurs again, only more consistently (ie every second on my system, xphome sp2, AMD Athlon, Via, Asus, latest nVidia, VIA drivers etc), the only background programs that cause trouble seem to be the CPU coolers. Thank goodness its easy to disable them.
Those CPU cooler, as I say I don't use one, how do they work exactly?
I can't see anyway they could cool the CPU, the only thing they can do is cause the CPU to reduce the amount of heat it is generating. The only way I can see to do that is to artificialy reduce it's speed. I don't really see the point of having a fast processor if I then have to slow it down because they did not design it to be able to with stand the heat it generates itself.
I can't see anyway they could cool the CPU, the only thing they can do is cause the CPU to reduce the amount of heat it is generating. The only way I can see to do that is to artificialy reduce it's speed. I don't really see the point of having a fast processor if I then have to slow it down because they did not design it to be able to with stand the heat it generates itself.
We are drifting off topic here, but anyway
Modern CPU's (as do modern GPU's, chipset northbridges, DDR RAM modules and hard drives) all run hot when operating at full capacity. As such, most of these components need heavy cooling solutions (preferably liquid cooling), which involves introducing cooling fans for most of the aforementioned components. These fans have one property in common: a relatively small surface. Which means you need high RPM's to get sufficient cooling. High RPM's result in a lot of noise, unfortunately.
To cut down on the noise, the RPM's need to be reduced. This can be done automatically through a thermal resistor, but for the hottest components (CPU and GPU) this may not be enough for some people. You can get further gains through software, though. By installing a little routine, hooked deep inside the Windows kernel. You hook your routine into the kernel idle loop, and monitor the percentage time spent there (just like the Windows task manager does). If you determine that it's like 90% or so (just to give an example), you can safely reduce the CPU core clock speed. Because all the processor is doing, is executing an endless loop of NOP instruction (No OPeration), waiting for user input. In other words, the CPU is not executing a program, so it does not matter if it does nothing at 2 GHz or 200 Hz
As soon as the idle loop percentage drops down, the processor is doing real work, and the hook routine pumps the core clock speed back up again. It's more or less the same thing a Centrino notebook processor does in hardware.
Jan Peter
Modern CPU's (as do modern GPU's, chipset northbridges, DDR RAM modules and hard drives) all run hot when operating at full capacity. As such, most of these components need heavy cooling solutions (preferably liquid cooling
), which involves introducing cooling fans for most of the aforementioned components. These fans have one property in common: a relatively small surface. Which means you need high RPM's to get sufficient cooling. High RPM's result in a lot of noise, unfortunately.To cut down on the noise, the RPM's need to be reduced. This can be done automatically through a thermal resistor, but for the hottest components (CPU and GPU) this may not be enough for some people. You can get further gains through software, though. By installing a little routine, hooked deep inside the Windows kernel. You hook your routine into the kernel idle loop, and monitor the percentage time spent there (just like the Windows task manager does). If you determine that it's like 90% or so (just to give an example), you can safely reduce the CPU core clock speed. Because all the processor is doing, is executing an endless loop of NOP instruction (No OPeration), waiting for user input. In other words, the CPU is not executing a program, so it does not matter if it does nothing at 2 GHz or 200 Hz
As soon as the idle loop percentage drops down, the processor is doing real work, and the hook routine pumps the core clock speed back up again. It's more or less the same thing a Centrino notebook processor does in hardware.
Jan Peter
So I was right about how they worked, but it is interesting that they monitor usage and use that as a guide for speed. I assumed it was just a thermostate thing where when it pickup a too hot level it cycled the proccess down.
Never off topic to discuss how hardware works in the support forum.
Particularly if you are talking to me.
Never off topic to discuss how hardware works in the support forum.
Particularly if you are talking to me.
The most effective one (for me) has been S2KControl. I think it disconnects the bus when cpu is idle. Whatever it does it rreduces the temp for me by 10 degrees C, as measure using MBM 5.3.7.0.
Even though AMD CPU's are designed to work at high temp (Athlon for example has max op temp of 90C!!), it just seems too high to me. Its the reason I wont have an AMD again.
The operating temp, with a 3d game such as X2 The Threat, runs 10C cooler (61C) on my machine with no apparent ill effects. As mentioned in first post, its only HOI2, Victoria, EU2, and CK that are affected.
I say 'only' with tongue it cheek; those programes are what make having a computer worth while .
Still, I can turn them off when using Paradox, which is daily.
Even though AMD CPU's are designed to work at high temp (Athlon for example has max op temp of 90C!!), it just seems too high to me. Its the reason I wont have an AMD again.
The operating temp, with a 3d game such as X2 The Threat, runs 10C cooler (61C) on my machine with no apparent ill effects. As mentioned in first post, its only HOI2, Victoria, EU2, and CK that are affected.
I say 'only' with tongue it cheek; those programes are what make having a computer worth while
. Still, I can turn them off when using Paradox, which is daily.