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Free Stuff in Events

MattyG · 2005-05-13T15:35:36+00:00

Use of Give-aways in Aberration This thread is to debate the use and abuse of give-aways in events in the game. It doesn’t represent ‘policy’, only my views on this element of event effects. We can’t change the way everyone in EU2 designs their mods, but perhaps we can refine things here in Aberration. Basically, I feel that a lot of give-aways are unjustified, irresponsible and inexcusable. However, I am not going to get anywhere by ranting and I need to be more logical and rational. So, lets look at these kinds of events. [SIZE=3]The Contemporary Situation So, you’re playing a new game, and it’s in the multiplayer environment. So you know that you are going to need to plan your strategy carefully, which means having to understand your event files. If you are like most players, the main things you zoom in on are 1. Civil war and other catastrophes and how to avoid them, and 2. The ‘goodies’ events and how to ensure you get as many as possible. Goodies events can include many things, such as positive slider shifts, inflation reduction, free cores, cash, taxbase increases, revoltrisk reductions, monarch rating increases, troops, manufacturies, recruitment centres and wharves. Positive events are a common feature of event files and are often well-structured and well-merited. However, I feel this is rarely the case for the last four. Nevertheless, they’re in there, in every event file for every major country. Not for minors, of course, which is another part of the problem. ‘Goodies’ are so endemic, so assumed, that you simply cannot create an event file without two or three free manufacturies and around 40K free troops. To not give out these would be to hamstring that country compared to its competitors. [SIZE=2]Why Free Stuff? This is a good question and I’m glad that I asked it. Let’s remember who we are when we play the game. We are the ‘grey power’ manipulating the king and other significant decision makers. We run the country. Therefore, events have to represent things outside of our control, right? These can include natural events (disasters) local officials, rebellious peasants, ideas, dynamic individuals who are not part of the government, the church, foreign powers and, of course, times when the monarch gets really feisty or crazy and doesn’t do what we say. Events that give free stuff must, therefore, represent the dealings, ideas, initiatives and occurrences from these other agents. There are, nonetheless, many events which represent not others agents, but the decisions and abilities of the government/monarch/advisors. Which is really you, the player. Most Goodies events are in reality the things the player should be doing, and an example of event-writing gone wrong. Let’s use an archetypal goodie event. (Not written in script) Event: A glorious time! Trigger: June 12, 1567 Desc: After years of turmoil we are at peace and have a strong leader and the economy is now booming. Effects: Cores on four provinces Stability +3 Infra +1000 Trade +500 Refinery in random province Goods manu in random province Now, I realise that flavour in these events is great. The heart swells, the nation has survived and here is the proof positive, the flow of mana (manus?) from heaven. But actually, its mostly bollocks. Not just because its 5000+ ducats in free resources, but because you get them independently and instantly. In effect, the game has done your job for you, and on that basis alone I am irked by these events. Let’s look at some of the different elements give-aways and how we need to reconsider them. Manufacturies and other buildings If the economy is doing well, then it’s doing well, and that is its own reward. A golden age is defined by an extended period of peace and stability and prosperity. If you are having one of those then you can afford to build those manus. And you should. And that’s what your job is. Yours, not the game’s. If you want manus (and you know you do) then plan appropriately, print money, save and build one. Something that takes such significant strategic decisions out of the player’s hands only lessens the challenge and ultimately unbalances the game. Surely Not All Free Buildings are Bad? Okay, okay, okay. Not all. I can think of three broad categories where it makes sense. 1. The efforts of others The vanilla event where the Swedes have some foreigners arrive in large numbers with weapons-making skills and technology is one event where it is conceptually valid. I am not sure if the history is accurate, but that’s a separate issue for the AGC-EEP to debate. This event represents an effort and skill-base that is outside the government and even the culture, and so can only be represented by an event. Likewise, you might want to craft an event around a particular individual of brilliance. Who comes to the king with a new invention that needs funding. The first event would represent an investment by the government, which if taking up would later lead to the placement of the manufactury, the success of that genius’ work. However, they should still cost money, not be free. 2. Being ahead of your time Great leaders are ahead of their time to some degree. Their personal energy and dynamism typically helps to define a nation’s golden age. With these monarchs, it seems quite justified to grant buildings that could otherwise not be built. Typically, these will be military buildings, the Great Wharves and naval goods for naval countries, the Recruitment Centres and arms production buildings for the larger land countries. Giving these to great early monarchs makes sense, as they cannot yet be legally built. However, they should still cost money, probably even more than their normal base cost, not be free. 3. Helping the AI keep up The ai sucks at building manufacturies etc. Every nation should have within its event files the following events. trigger = { ai = yes stability = 2 infra = 3 size = 7 } random = no country = ZXR name = “I am hopeless and need help building a manufactury” date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1490 } offset = 3000 deathdate = { day = 1 month = december year = 1600 } action_a = { name = “This should help” command = { type = gainbuilding which = -1 value = refinery } } And so forth, ensuring that each ai country would get manufacturies based on certain size and stability minimums, sliders appropriate to the building, the right tech scores and within specific dates. Alternatively, these events could be random, and for the ai only. Troops Free troops is another wacky one. Where did they come from? Who bought those uniforms for them? Who supplied those weapons? Who trained them up to the standard of our existing units? Don’t give away free troops, or rarely. These events are always tied to the country being at war, or in internal turmoil, or religious crusade etc. If we are talking about people rallying to a cause then this is represented through the rarely-used command to increase MP. (The increase is once-off, not permanent.) If people are rallying, then they are offering you their services (MP, the availability of men for the army). But they don’t come equipped and trained and you still have to pay for them to be so readied. I can see the exception for this in cultures where quality is very very low, and where tech is very very low. So, for a country like Ukraine in the first 100 years, OK. Otherwise, no free guns. Give the player the (temporarily) increased MP and let them pay for the troops as they should. Cores Arrrrrrgggggg. A core/shield represents your country’s legitimate claim on a province. Legitimate here meaning that other countries in your region acknowledge your prior ownership or rights, or understand that it is of dire strategic significance to you. A core is NOT just something you might like to own. And other countries are very very very reluctant to accept that their neighbours have a legitimate claim on something. The abusive give-away of cores in EU2 generally and Aberration specifically really need to be reconsidered. Apart from the colonial claim events, I can see few instances where a nation could receive cores beyond its starting allotment. But here are a few. Inheritances: That’s the main one. Fair enough. Imperial growth: Sometimes. The vanilla EU2 gives Russia all these core it shouldn’t have, just because it got big historically. It should grant them later, once they have conquered them, and once other countries have grundgingly accepted the Russians are there to stay. They should be retroactive, not pro-active. Otherwise, don’t give out cores. It doesn’t mean you can’t capture provinces and own them for the whole game. But it DOES mean that your BB for being aggressive is much less, something that we don’t want to encourage, surely. Tech Increases These are a really good way of expressing the benefits of reform, of energetic individuals and of the influence of neighbouring countries. However, note that they should not be given out because a monarch is good, as in the event above. The monarch is already contributing hugely to tech increases through their MIL and ADM scores. Economic Boons Very supportive of these. Increases to province tax bases, inflation reduction (in very small amounts) and even gifts of cash all seem justifiable. Merchants, Colonists and Diplomats Another underused category. If you have a quality monarch or a great moment in history, these things effect the whole culture and the energy of the people. Reflect this in the ability of that nation to do more. Have an economic restructuring event? +6 merchants seems a natural consequence, as your people are hopeful in the economy and become more entrepreneurial. Have a repression event? Domestic Policy Sliders A tough category. These must be the mainstay of events, as they represent the national profile. However, they can still be handed out with gay abandon. Remember that we can have a self-initiated change once every ten years. Some events through around slider changes of 8 – 10, a hundred years worth of social change. This is understandable in periods of significant social unrest, as with civil wars or religious strife, but the consequences will always include high RR and revolts, with all the problems they create. Modesty, in all things. Keep DP slider changes to 4 points maximum. In wrapping up, let’s have a look at a classic Goodies event from Aberration. I love the Byzantium file, but it has mistakes and this is one. Not the feel of the event so much as how it is executed. ################################ # Michael Doukas period events ################################ event = { id = 201936 trigger = {Great triggering, well done } name = "Direction of the Empire" desc = "Even with the recent unrest and troubles, the Empire is still very powerful. Now when Michael Doukas has brought stability and order, the direction of Empire's glorious destiny has to be decided on." style = 1 date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1647 } offset = 30 deathdate = { day = 1 month = january year = 1659 } action_a = { name = "Local Supremacy" command = { type = addcore which = 318 } # Moldova command = { type = addcore which = 319 } # Bujak command = { type = addcore which = 322 } # Wallachia command = { type = addcore which = 469 } # Sochi command = { type = addcore which = 470 } # Georgia command = { type = addcore which = 472 } # Armenia command = { type = addcore which = 473 } # Kurdistan command = { type = addcore which = 474 } # Sivas command = { type = addcore which = 393 } # Napoli command = { type = addcore which = 394 } # Apulia command = { type = addcore which = 359 } # Hellas command = { type = domestic which = land value = 2 } command = { type = domestic which = offensive value = 2 } command = { type = domestic which = quality value = 2 } command = { type = relation which = HUN value = -200 } command = { type = relation which = GEO value = -200 } command = { type = relation which = UKR value = -200 } command = { type = gainbuilding which = 357 value = barrack } command = { type = gainmanufactory which = -1 value = weapons } command = { type = gainmanufactory which = -1 value = weapons } } action_b = { name = "Recreation of the Empire" command = { type = addcore which = 491 } # Lebanon command = { type = addcore which = 492 } # Samaria command = { type = addcore which = 493 } # Judea command = { type = addcore which = 494 } # Sinai command = { type = addcore which = 744 } # Alexandria command = { type = addcore which = 472 } # Armenia command = { type = addcore which = 473 } # Kurdistan command = { type = addcore which = 474 } # Sivas command = { type = addcore which = 393 } # Napoli command = { type = addcore which = 394 } # Apulia command = { type = addcore which = 359 } # Hellas command = { type = domestic which = offensive value = 2 } command = { type = domestic which = quality value = 2 } command = { type = relation which = JER value = -200 } command = { type = relation which = MAM value = -200 } command = { type = relation which = EGY value = -200 } command = { type = relation which = CAL value = -200 } command = { type = gainbuilding which = 357 value = barrack } command = { type = gainmanufactory which = -1 value = weapons } command = { type = gainmanufactory which = -1 value = navalequipment } } action_c = { name = "Mastery of Mediterranean" command = { type = addcore which = 819 } # Malta command = { type = addcore which = 397 } # Sardinia command = { type = addcore which = 398 } # Corsica command = { type = addcore which = 821 } # Baleares command = { type = addcore which = 445 } # Gibraltar command = { type = addcore which = 732 } # Tangiers command = { type = addcore which = 739 } # Tunisia command = { type = addcore which = 472 } # Armenia command = { type = addcore which = 473 } # Kurdistan command = { type = addcore which = 474 } # Sivas command = { type = addcore which = 393 } # Napoli command = { type = addcore which = 394 } # Apulia command = { type = addcore which = 359 } # Hellas command = { type = domestic which = land value = -2 } command = { type = domestic which = offensive value = 2 } command = { type = domestic which = quality value = 2 } command = { type = relation which = GEN value = -200 } command = { type = relation which = SIC value = -200 } command = { type = relation which = GRA value = -200 } command = { type = gainbuilding which = 357 value = shipyard } command = { type = gainmanufactory which = -1 value = navalequipment } command = { type = gainmanufactory which = -1 value = navalequipment } } } So, there’s a lot on offer here. A lot of cores, especially. The Recreation of the Empire offers some cores which might be justifiable, but mostly these give-aways are absolutely gratuitous nonsense. The Meditterranean ones are off the scale. What, you get these cores because you’d like to own those places? This is not how it works. If you want the ai Byzantium to go after these locations, then for each option have the command Command = { type = ai = byzantium_empire2.ai } And in this new file include their probable owners as enemies. Then, should they be conquered, include an event for the ai that changes the ai file once more. All these free manufacturies? Maybe, and maybe not. Perhaps one of either the shipyard/naval equipment combo or barrack/weapons combo. But NOT for free. Relations, OK, of you really think that Michael Doukas wants to indicate his aggressive intentions. But at least give an Action_D to have a peaceful reign. If I were re-writing this event the actions might look like this. action_a = { name = "Local Supremacy" command = { type = casusbelli which = HUN value = 120 } command = { type = casusbelli which = UKR value = 120 } command = { type = casusbelli which = GEO value = 120 } command = { type = casusbelli which = STE value = 120 } command = { type = MIL which = 1 value = 120 } command = { type = ADM which = -1 value = 120 } command = { type = domestic which = land value = 1 } command = { type = domestic which = offensive value = 1 } command = { type = domestic which = quality value = 1 } command = { type = addcore which = 359 } # Hellas command = { type = relation which = HUN value = -200 } command = { type = relation which = GEO value = -200 } command = { type = relation which = UKR value = -200 } command = { type = relation which = STE value = -200 } command = { type = gainbuilding which = 357 value = barrack } command = { type = gainmanufactory which = -1 value = weapons } command = { type = cash value = -1000 } } action_b = { name = "Recreation of the Empire" command = { type = addcore which = 359 } # Hellas command = { type = casusbelli which = KOJ value = 120 } command = { type = casusbelli which = MAM value = 120 } command = { type = casusbelli which = EGY value = 120 } command = { type = casusbelli which = CAL value = 120 } command = { type = MIL which = 1 value = 120 } command = { type = ADM which = -1 value = 120 } command = { type = domestic which = land value = 1 } command = { type = domestic which = offensive value = 1 } command = { type = domestic which = quality value = 1 } command = { type = relation which = KOJ value = -200 } command = { type = relation which = MAM value = -200 } command = { type = relation which = EGY value = -200 } command = { type = relation which = CAL value = -200 } command = { type = gainbuilding which = 357 value = barrack } command = { type = gainmanufactory which = -1 value = weapons } command = { type = cash value = -1000 } command = { type = ai which = byzantium_empire.ai } action_c = { name = "Mastery of Mediterranean" command = { type = MIL which = 1 value = 120 } command = { type = ADM which = -1 value = 120 } command = { type = addcore which = 359 } # Hellas command = { type = domestic which = land value = -2 } command = { type = domestic which = offensive value = 1 } command = { type = domestic which = quality value = 1 } command = { type = relation which = GEN value = -200 } command = { type = relation which = SIC value = -200 } command = { type = relation which = GRA value = -200 } command = { type = casusbelli which = GEN value = -120 } command = { type = casusbelli which = SIC value = -120 } command = { type = casusbelli which = GRA value = -120 } command = { type = gainbuilding which = 357 value = shipyard } command = { type = gainmanufactory which = -1 value = navalequipment } command = { type = cash value = -1000 } command = { type = ai which = byzantium_med.ai } } } action_d = { name = “After years of turmoil, we shall have peace” command = { type = domestic which = centralization value = 1 } command = { type = inflation value = -3 } command = { type = ADM which = 1 value = 120 } command = { type = MIL which = -1 value = 120 } command = { type = merchants value = 6 } command = { type = diplomats value = 3 } command = { type = ai which = byzantium_peace.ai } command = { type = provincetax which = -1 value = 1 } command = { type = provincetax which = -1 value = 1 } command = { type = provincetax which = -1 value = 1 } command = { type = provincetax which = -1 value = 1 } command = { type = relations which = UKR value = 50 } command = { type = relations which = HUN value = 50 } command = { type = relations which = GEO value = 50 } command = { type = relations which = STE value = 50 } command = { type = relations which = CAL value = 50 } command = { type = relations which = GEN value = 50 } command = { type = relations which = SER value = 50 } command = { type = relations which = WAL value = 50 }

Thread starter MattyG
Start date May 13, 2005

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Trin Tragula

Design Lead - Crusader Kings 3

Paradox Staff

36 Badges

May 16, 2005

Generally agree (though I think one should remember the troop recruiting effects of cores as well as the diplomatic ones).
But the giving out of free soldiers should imho be quite liberal at times. Private persons showing up with their own hosts is actually a rather common thing in real history up untill the 18th century or so (take wallenstein for instance, who repeatedly offers to come up with an army basicly for free and then does so when the offer is accepted).

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