FW190 X4 Missiles

[1776ZOOMSNIPE1911]

Hello guys.
I would like to suggest the x4 and x7 missiles for steel division
These missiles are known for being the first production air to air(x4) and atgm(x7).

Now i know what your thinking, "but the missiles are a unicorn" but did you know the x4 was in serial production!
"Production was hampered by Allied bombing of the BMW rocket engine factory at Stargard, though as many as 1,000 X-4s may have been completed"

The next criticism for the x4 is in regards to it being in time frame.
Development started in early 1943 and first test where preformed half way though 1944. I feel that this is comfortably in the time frame

Fw 190F With x4 missile

x4 Cross section

 

[TheMonk]

I think it needs to be confirmed that the weapon was either used in Normandy or was (theoretically) ready to be used during the Normandy conflict (like the Locust)

 

[1776ZOOMSNIPE1911]

I think it needs to be confirmed that the weapon was either used in Normandy or was (theoretically) ready to be used during the Normandy conflict (like the Locust)

Like i said there was 1000 already produced, i think they where not widespread due to learning curve or using new weapons. if the locust was in the same situation, i dont see a reason to not have it added

 

[TheMonk]

Like i said there was 1000 already produced, i think they where not widespread due to learning curve or using new weapons. if the locust was in the same situation, i dont see a reason to not have it added

The wording is "at the end of the war" not "during the conflict" which makes me think it was still in testing during 1944.
In fact the first test was conducted only in August 1944, so after Normandy.

 

[Thonar]

X4 had its first test flight Mid-August 1944.
I think we can well assume it was never used in Normandy.

 

[1776ZOOMSNIPE1911]

X4 had its first test flight Mid-August 1944.
I think we can well assume it was never used in Normandy.

it may have not been used in normandy much like the locust, but it is safe to assume it would have if the allies wherent bombing every square inch of europe

 

[TheMonk]

it may have not been used in normandy much like the locust, but it is safe to assume it would have if the allies wherent bombing every square inch of europe

the large difference is that the M22 Locust was ready in Britain but it was decided not to bring them for more AT/AA guns.
The X4 is some prototype unicorn in that regard and also would have been used on the Ju88 and not with a Fw190. Maybe we gonna see it with a "alternative ww2 Steel Division"-game where Nazi-Germany somehow resists to be able to actually put it into service.

 

[1776ZOOMSNIPE1911]

the large difference is that the M22 Locust was ready in Britain but it was decided not to bring them for more AT/AA guns.
The X4 is some prototype unicorn in that regard and also would have been used on the Ju88 and not with a Fw190. Maybe we gonna see it with a "alternative ww2 Steel Division"-game where Nazi-Germany somehow resists to be able to actually put it into service.

They have at least 1000 x4s produced? why would they make so many for a unicorn prototype??

 

[Thonar]

They have at least 1000 x4s produced? why would they make so many for a unicorn prototype??

But only AFTER normandy. Thus it has nothing to do in the unit line up of this game.

 

[TheMonk]

They have at least 1000 x4s produced? why would they make so many for a unicorn prototype??

because it never saw service even if it got produced a 1000 times.

But only AFTER normandy. Thus it has nothing to do in the unit line up of this game.

also this, it will not be in.

 

[12ssinaction]

It's impossible for a single-seat fighter pliot to guide a MCLOS missile and control the aircraft itself at the sametime, so the Germans themselves had chosen to use unguided R4M rockets to intercept allied bomber formation.Besides X-4 is not designed to engage any tactical aircraft, so it will still be useless if you put it in game.

 

[1776ZOOMSNIPE1911]

It's impossible for a single-seat fighter pliot to guide a MCLOS missile and control the aircraft itself at the sametime, so the Germans themselves had chosen to use unguided R4M rockets to intercept allied bomber formation.Besides X-4 is not designed to engage any tactical aircraft, so it will still be useless if you put it in game.

No. one arm uses the missile joystick, the other arm uses the stick

fw190 x4 joystick

 

[theBLUB]

The problem you might not see is: you can not fly any maneuvers to evade hostile AA-fire and/or enemy planes. Please tell me how the pilot is supposed to keep the missile, enemy planes and the enviroment in his eyes without flying a straight line? The X-4 is a weapon designed against allied bombers, in a fight against enemy (and more agile) planes you will a) not hit anything and b) blown out of the air. There is a reasion why they went to two-seat planes for the usage of these missiles.

 

[1776ZOOMSNIPE1911]

The problem you might not see is: you can not fly any maneuvers to evade hostile AA-fire and/or enemy planes. Please tell me how the pilot is supposed to keep the missile, enemy planes and the enviroment in his eyes without flying a straight line? The X-4 is a weapon designed against allied bombers, in a fight against enemy (and more agile) planes you will a) not hit anything and b) blown out of the air. There is a reasion why they went to two-seat planes for the usage of these missiles.

If thats the case then the pilot would get stunned the missile would miss, as would any other plane

because it never saw service even if it got produced a 1000 times.

also the case with the m22 locust

 

[theBLUB]

If thats the case then the pilot would get stunned the missile would miss, as would any other plane

So you're basically admitting that I am right. Consider the following siuation: You are chasing a hostile plane in your Fw 190 equipped with your Mk/Mg and the X-4. The hostile pilot is not a complete retard and tries to get rid of you, using his speed (due to the X-4 the maximum speed of your plane is reduced) or he is trying to outmaneuver you which is also possible. So you would prever to shoot your X-4 at the plane you are currently following, without a real chance to hit, while being vulnerable to enemy attacks the whole time?
Again, the X-4 is designed for attacks against allied bomber swarms which we will not see ingame. It is pretty useless against enemy fighters or CAS-planes.

Ialso the case with the m22 locust

The Locust was a) combat ready within the timeframe, the X-4 was not b) the allied command initially planned to use them during the campaign but it was overthrown due to logistical reasons.
It would be kind if you could provide sources that the X-4 was also ready to use and/or that it was planned to fight the allied air superiority above the Normandy. Otherwise this discussion seems pretty vain.

 

[TheMonk]

also the case with the m22 locust

ayy, you can't read wiki articles it seems.
Anyway: http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum...out-soviet-union.1002326/page-7#post-22494560

 

[_Sev_]

Why not going for something usefull like the SD-2, Flamm C 500 or something?

 

[1776ZOOMSNIPE1911]

So you're basically admitting that I am right. Consider the following siuation: You are chasing a hostile plane in your Fw 190 equipped with your Mk/Mg and the X-4. The hostile pilot is not a complete retard and tries to get rid of you, using his speed (due to the X-4 the maximum speed of your plane is reduced) or he is trying to outmaneuver you which is also possible. So you would prever to shoot your X-4 at the plane you are currently following, without a real chance to hit, while being vulnerable to enemy attacks the whole time?
Again, the X-4 is designed for attacks against allied bomber swarms which we will not see ingame. It is pretty useless against enemy fighters or CAS-planes.

The x4 would be launched far before the plane is near the other planes or any AAA

 

[theBLUB]

Before the plane is near? The X-4 will reach its maximum range after 20 seconds. If the hostile plane is fleeing or trying to evade you need to come closer to him which reduces your distance to the enemy again. And do you really think they are fighting above no mans land? The whole Normandy was filled with soldiers due to that time. So yeah, you are far away from them, also from enemy planes. I guess in your eyes 3.5 to 5km is already BVR combat^^ But you seem to be one of those guys who would have been shot down with that thing...

 

[Mendeth]

The x4 would be launched far before the plane is near the other planes or any AAA

But it would still have to maintain visual contact with the target - most likely fighter or CAS in the case of the game as strategic bombers won't be included - for the pilot to guide the missile. Any manoeuvres could hypothetically quite easily cut the control wires.

Regardless, this discussion is rather moot as Eugen have made it clear in the link TheMonk posted that they're not including wunderwaffe projects.