Genoa Focus

[unmerged(8881)]

Hi all,

I'm playing Genoa in a MP game now and have noticed a couple of things.

Firstly there's an event chain giving them cores on two north african provinces. I'm just wondering if anyone can come up with an explanation as to why two poor, wrong religion, wrong culture, non-land-connected provinces are given as cores, I've looked into it and there's no reason I can see Genoa would actually want them, they hurt tech research and put a huge drag on stab costs.

Secondly, there's a couple of new world events that give Genoa some goodies for holding provinces around either Louisiana or Cuba. Given the head starts given to Eire, Brittany, Hansa, and Sicily I can't imagine these would be open by 1502 when Columbus comes. Furthermore by reading the event files players other than Genoa can attempt to 'block' Genoa's access to thes areas. From what I've read Genoa is meant to be a naval-trade oriented nation, so I can't imagine it would easy for them to engage in combat to takes these areas. I'm wondering whether more flexibility can be given to Genoa in terms of possible areas that could trigger the event, e.g. Brazil or Lesser Antilles?

Lastly, Genoa's first conquistador comes in 1580 (Brittany and Hansa have both get one before 1515) which seems relatively late to me. So the big question for me is what type of role is Genoa meant to fill in a MP game, and do the current events tie well into that?

 

[Incompetent]

Hi all,

I'm playing Genoa in a MP game now and have noticed a couple of things.

Firstly there's an event chain giving them cores on two north african provinces. I'm just wondering if anyone can come up with an explanation as to why two poor, wrong religion, wrong culture, non-land-connected provinces are given as cores, I've looked into it and there's no reason I can see Genoa would actually want them, they hurt tech research and put a huge drag on stab costs.

I agree, this doesn't make a lot of sense. I suggest we drop Genoa's involvement in North Africa and transfer the events to Sicily. We can then take away the option of Greek culture from Sicily, and make it worth Sicily's while to get involved in Africa, though the current offer of Arabic culture is a bit much.

Secondly, there's a couple of new world events that give Genoa some goodies for holding provinces around either Louisiana or Cuba. Given the head starts given to Eire, Brittany, Hansa, and Sicily I can't imagine these would be open by 1502 when Columbus comes. Furthermore by reading the event files players other than Genoa can attempt to 'block' Genoa's access to thes areas. From what I've read Genoa is meant to be a naval-trade oriented nation, so I can't imagine it would easy for them to engage in combat to takes these areas. I'm wondering whether more flexibility can be given to Genoa in terms of possible areas that could trigger the event, e.g. Brazil or Lesser Antilles?

Genoa is supposed to be a very strong naval power, so they've got a good chance in any colonial war. But yes, there's no reason they should have to go for Louisiana, and certainly Cuba will be out (AFAIK it's Maya country now!) In fact, with changes to Eire, Genoa's colonial focus will probably shift more to Africa and the Indian Ocean.

Lastly, Genoa's first conquistador comes in 1580 (Brittany and Hansa have both get one before 1515) which seems relatively late to me. So the big question for me is what type of role is Genoa meant to fill in a MP game, and do the current events tie well into that?

That does seem a bit late, though if we shift Genoa's colonial focus they'll primarily need explorers. Genoa ought to have at least one moderately early conquistador, certainly before the Hansa get any.

Genoa is meant to aim for naval and trade dominance of the Mediterranean (partly by taking all the islands!), control of northern Italy, brutally crushing Sicily, and a decent colonial empire. They'll also have to deal with Cordoba's attempts to block the Pillars of Hercules, for which I intend to beef up the events. Whether they can do all this at once is another matter. The important thing is that they get lots of high-quality admirals, IMO.


Another thing we need to look at is Genoa-Sicily balance, as these two are likely to fight it out for control of Italy. I'd say we should aim for a balance like this: Genoa is easily the stronger naval power, giving them a big advantage in a one-on-one fight with Sicily. However, Sicily has better generals, and more importantly fewer natural enemies. By threatening Genoa from the land, where it is vulnerable, powers like Hungary and Savoy can prevent Genoa from overstepping the mark in Sicily.

 

[MattyG]

Genoa, like all the other European nations, will get a thorough working over.

In other threads some of the options have been discussed, including an event that eventually has the Pope force a concorde between Genoa and Sicily if they are both in existence. Probably in the 1520s once the New World becomes the New Focus.

For the conquistador, it will be essential that Genoa gets one early on to match its explorers, as explorers alone can’t find very much, usually. Because Genoa starts a little later than Eire (which has too much too early, but that’s another story) then it would be better to have it get the explorer and conquistador at the same time, as the ‘principle’ of the New World’s existence has been proven and colonies already exist out there.

As for the Goodies event, rather than open the event to more broad triggering, it probably needs to be removed along with all such events as they are demonstrably redundant.

 

[Incompetent]

Genoa, like all the other European nations, will get a thorough working over.

In other threads some of the options have been discussed, including an event that eventually has the Pope force a concorde between Genoa and Sicily if they are both in existence. Probably in the 1520s once the New World becomes the New Focus.

Or in the aftermath of epo_med, if we choose to keep it.

For the conquistador, it will be essential that Genoa gets one early on to match its explorers, as explorers alone can’t find very much, usually. Because Genoa starts a little later than Eire (which has too much too early, but that’s another story) then it would be better to have it get the explorer and conquistador at the same time, as the ‘principle’ of the New World’s existence has been proven and colonies already exist out there.

Yep. But I think we can make Eire's early colonial efforts balanced.

As for the Goodies event, rather than open the event to more broad triggering, it probably needs to be removed along with all such events as they are demonstrably redundant.

Indeed. Though having AI-only freebie events like this might be more justifiable.

 

[unmerged(8881)]

I'm definitely in favour of removing most of the New World goodie events.

 

[yourworstnightm]

Should we give Kaffa and Kerch bakt to Genoa, I mean that would be a way to justify them getting greek culture later, also they could have a strategic choice to strengthen their position in the black sea, or to give up the two samll provinces to Byzantium for money (nad maybe lose greek culture).

 

[Incompetent]

Should we give Kaffa and Kerch bakt to Genoa, I mean that would be a way to justify them getting greek culture later, also they could have a strategic choice to strengthen their position in the black sea, or to give up the two samll provinces to Byzantium for money (nad maybe lose greek culture).

Currently, Genoa gets cores on Kaffa and Kerch by event, if Byzantium invites them to take the provinces (only happens if Byz has failed to take them itself). I say the current setup is fine here, except that Byzantium should also be able to Hellenise these provinces (ATM only Genoa can do that, which is bizarre).

The justification for Genoa getting Greek culture is that they are friends with Byzantium (and Krete even more so), and also that they manage to assimilate Cyprus. They should lose Greek culture if they piss off the Palaiologoi, who are their chief supporters, but they may get to keep it if the Palaiologoi are deposed, as then Genoa represents the Palaiologoi's claim to the imperial throne. They could also inherit Krete under these circumstances.