German Heavy Cruiser Experiment.

[Zardnaar]

THought I would try something.

Goal sink the royal navy.
Method. Subs, destroyers, heavy cruisers.

Initial build order Jan 7th 36 (after Graf Spee is built and reoccupation of the Rhineland).

All X99

X6 CA/FC
X3 SSIII
X1 Militia
X6 36 Inf
X1 transport
X1 convoys

X1 lvl I Panzer (X11serial).

Basic idea. Build huge heavy cruiser navy. Upgrade everything in 1938/39. See what I have by 1940. Rush lvl IV subs and destroyers hopefully ready to build late 36/early 37.

 

[Pepsi_max]

Better build 2 IC run and then build full '38-'39 stuff.

 

[OsirisReborn]

Another thing to consider... since I've been playing Armageddon i haven't seen any of the "double upgrades" we used to get in doomsday on our infantry ...small point maybe you are considering/counting on.
In my current game I've built 8 heavy cruisers all Deutschland class, mostly they're sitting damaged in a port. Obviously i didn't mass them properly, love to hear what your 12/24 ? can do

 

[noobermenschen]

blue emu did this, both as an experiment, and as part of his '34 Germany AAR. You had to watch your fleets closely and have lots of cruisers to rotate back into drydock, but he hammered the RN and USN pretty good if I recall.

EDIT: Here's the link to his AAR.

 

[Zardnaar]

JeanDeloch I managed to build 30 CA with fire control by Sep 39. with the 2 you start the game with and the Graf Spee thats 33 total. I also rushed these techs.

Both complete by mid 39. I'm using destroyers as escorts and have a 190+ divisions army which is mostly modern enough with a few militia and alot of subs. Luftwaffe got bupkiss as per usual in my naval games. I saved the game in may 39 so I can try out some tactics. I'm not to sure how to use the cruiser though. I used them to delay the English and French fleets and invaded France by amphibious assaulting western France and driving on Paris. Vichy event fired on Sep 9 and I was fighting in Poland as well. Feels very cheap though and Hungary was in the Axis as I gave them Slovakia. I'm using them in 12 ship mini SAGS of 6 CA and 6 DD. They maul the smaller allied fllets and can engage fleets with a few capital ships in them but carriers or more than 2-3 BB seem to wreck you. Just wondering if I should create an uber fleet under Raeder of 18 CA 12 DD or a 15/15 split.

I have no CVLs and 10 tac bombers + modern doctrines so no nav bombers. I'll reload and stomp on Poland and pulll a France 39 invasion. I have used CA SAGs before for convoy raiding as you can do it one both day and night and theres alot of useless fleets to sink out in the Atlantic as the BB and CV fleets tend to stay close to the UK. Any advice is welcome.

Kriegsmarine Sep 1 1939.
2 BC (old ones you start with)
CA 33
CL 5 (starting ships)
DD 26
Subs 63 (36/27 lvl III/IV split)

 

[OsirisReborn]

The uberfleet is fun to play and easy to manage but you have no flexibility, just make all your fleets the same speed (probably 28).
I mean that if you have all your ships in one fleet and start to win a huge battle youll get the hard choice whether to lose 2 or 3 CA in order to crush your enemy. I have several fleets with 2 or 3 capitals (max) sailing together so i can just withdraw a portion of the fleet when it gets heavily damaged. There doesnt seem to be any trouble with spotting so if one gets into contact just order the others to stop in that sea area and they get included in the battle.

 

[midget_roxx]

Just use TACs and CAS. Much easier

 

[Ivir Baggins]

Er, doesn't having more capitals than screens create a positioning penalty? Therefore, don't have more that a 1:1 ratio of CA:CL/DD. You might want to have slightly more screens, since they're more vulnerable.

 

[Zardnaar]

I'm not sure, thats why I'm asking you guys how to deploy the ships and fleet composition.

 

[OsirisReborn]

yes 18+12 would be bad , i didnt even notice he said that. I like to have 1 CA(or other capital), 2 CL, and 3 DD per fleet and have 3 or 4 of these sail around together. Add CVL when u can start building CVLIII.

sorry: ill explain each ship needs a "screen" to avoid penalties in the 18/12 fleet 6 of those CAs would have no cover and be penalised. u can have more than 1 screen tho with no ill effect.
Also having more fleets lets you lvl up more admirals at one time. just make sure at least one of them has enough command rating for the total (so you can use them all at once when possible)

 

[Zardnaar]

I know the basics but haven't bothered researching CVLs. IN the BC German game I just used Vice Admirals with 6 BC and 6 CL fleets, in this game its 6 CA and 6 DD although I'm short of DDs as I thought X3 DD in 37 would be enopugh but CAs build alot faster than capital ships and theres a massive difference between the USA and Germany in terms of gearing bonuses. I'll beeline for ship construction line, reload and do a traditional poland/france game without trying to do anything to clever like engage massive RN fleets in the English channel. I'll send them out on convoy raiding and see what I can do with them.

 

[OsirisReborn]

was wondering how your big stacks did.... Did u manage any rain or night surprises on CV? How many CA lost?
Try out my method (1 capital per fleet) i hardly ever lose a cruiser and you can level ALL of your good admirals right from the start.
Just wish there was a "synchronise arrival' button for naval movement hehe.

 

[Zardnaar]

I haven't really encountered an big stacks except once. I overran Poland easy enough and went for the traditional invade France Oct 39 approach I do. I discovered something the hard way.

1. If you have DoW Denmark and have forgotten to rebase your largest fleet out of Konigsberg you can't retreat from a fight as you are out of range. 9 CA +10 escorts (Germanys lt cruisers+destroyers) can't defeat 2 CVs and 5-6 older BBs. 2 CA survived that scrap heavily damaged.
2. Vichy event fired and I accepted but hte French fought on?????

I'll reload and give it another go as I screwed up big time and thats the 2nd time Vichy event hasn't fired after I have accepted it. I'm also slightly short of screens as my normal X3 D 37 build is for BB and BC fleets. CAs build alot faster and I need more of them.

CA's seem good at moppiong up smaller fleets and can engage larger fleets as long as they are similar types of ships- cruisers and the like. They also make decent enough surface raiders.

On the reload I think I will leave them in port until France falls Oct 39 and base them out of Brest/Bordeux. That way the Luftwaffe can aid them and I'll have nav bombers ready in april 40 or so. They seem to run low on ammo or something and sail through the English channel and run into the British home fleets. Even when they win a fight you don't get the massive amount of ships sunk like you get with the BC though.

 

[Pepsi_max]

Submarines can achieve bigger results in convoy raiding. With that navy (6BC+6 screens) you can pay 80/90 submarines.

For the naval battles....I'm more used playing MP, and BC worth nothing, especially against high-BB screens (like UK and France have at start) and DD spams.

In SP, i think 4-5 BB IV are way better than 6 BC.

Edit : For the basement, having la Coruna makes things much more easier.

Edit 2 : For CA fleets, they are the most cost-effective Capital unit. They are much better than BB against DD, CL...

The main problem is their weakness against BB-ships (Uk can afford having 10 or 12 on them in a single fleet)

 

[Zardnaar]

Iwo Jima came up with a BC strategy for Germany. After alot of testing it is better than BB and you can tear the BB based royal navy and USN CV's apart. Not sure if it would work in multiplayer espicially with human controlled France/Poland. I'm only using CA as raiders as I have them built already and they may run into a British fleet and sink it/run away.

Ultimate BC strategy. Sunk most of the French, British and allied fllets for the loss of 1-2 BC. USN was a bit harder but I ripped them apart as well.

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?482581-Plan-Z.-Uber-Kriegsmarine-Pt-III-AAR