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Oski

Oski

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Mar 28, 2001
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For quite some time now, it's seemed clear that there is a very eager fanbase ready to buy a new-generation Master of Magic. Stardock tried and was not successful, I hope Paradox succeeds where they did not.

It seems to me like the formula is not so difficult. As many features from Civ IV as possible, blended with a hero-based RPG-lite system. Preferably two research trees--magic and technology.

Following success with this venture, please review OTHER fanbase excitement: a next-generation Master of Orion 2 (with grand strategy and tactical combat systems, and a detailed ship design system with myriad effects of each weapon type and ship component); and a next-generation X-Com.
 
Oski said:
... a next-generation Master of Orion 2 (with grand strategy and tactical combat systems, and a detailed ship design system with myriad effects of each weapon type and ship component)...
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Have you tried Sword of the Stars? Or seen the reviews for the upcoming Sword of the Stars II by Paradox?
 
Innocent Beard said:
Have you tried Sword of the Stars? Or seen the reviews for the upcoming Sword of the Stars II by Paradox?
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I read the reviews for Sword of the Stars, but passed on it. My recollection was reading that the game was more simplified than what I'm looking for. Bear in mind this was half a decade ago, so my recollection's not crystal on it, but I recall reading that diplomacy was simplified, and that tactical combat was simplified. One of the things I loved in the MOO2 tactical combat was that each ship's individual damage was tracked, down to the level of damage to its individual components. I don't think SotS has that, am I correct?

SotS 2 is on my radar, but I haven't followed it too closely yet. That's typical for me though, I don't follow the pre-release stuff--even games that I'm incredibly excited for. Even Warlock, I'll probably check back here once every couple of months, and that'll be about it until it's out. Once the game's released (likewise for SotS 2) I'll definitely read the reviews though.

Let me know if I missed a gem with the original SotS though. If it did channel MOO2, then it's not something that I want to miss.
 
Oski said:
I read the reviews for Sword of the Stars, but passed on it. My recollection was reading that the game was more simplified than what I'm looking for. Bear in mind this was half a decade ago, so my recollection's not crystal on it, but I recall reading that diplomacy was simplified, and that tactical combat was simplified. One of the things I loved in the MOO2 tactical combat was that each ship's individual damage was tracked, down to the level of damage to its individual components. I don't think SotS has that, am I correct?
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Diplomacy is simple, but it is possible to have a reliable ally, the point of the game is space battles though, so war is often the status quo. You are completely off base concerning combat. I think you may be confusing SotS for GalCiv2. The combat is real time and pretty much the highlight of the game. Battles are kept arbitrarily small, but are very intense and do exactly what you liked about MoO2.

I think you may have missed something that you would have liked, with SoTS2 coming out at the end of the month, there will probably be a sale on the original sometime soon.
 
Well, thanks for both of your replies. It turns out that Amazon is selling a download version of SotS Complete right now for $9.99. I'm seriously mulling it. I've got a bit of a surplus of unplayed games at the moment, and was going to embark on likely a 3-month journey through Witcher 2. So part of me is inclined to just see how SotS 2 turns out and start there. But part of me is seriously considering downloading SotS 1 from Amazon maybe tonight, or in the next half-week. Thanks for pointing me towards a good strategy game that I missed folks!
 
Oski said:
For quite some time now, it's seemed clear that there is a very eager fanbase ready to buy a new-generation Master of Magic. Stardock tried and was not successful, I hope Paradox succeeds where they did not.

It seems to me like the formula is not so difficult. As many features from Civ IV as possible, blended with a hero-based RPG-lite system. Preferably two research trees--magic and technology.

Following success with this venture, please review OTHER fanbase excitement: a next-generation Master of Orion 2 (with grand strategy and tactical combat systems, and a detailed ship design system with myriad effects of each weapon type and ship component); and a next-generation X-Com.
Click to expand...

First off- I'll second the preaise Jasonkp gives to SotS. It's a pretty sexy game. Like everyone else, I'd be happier if the battles were larger, but if I'm in the mood for that SoaSE works well. Especially with the spiffy Star Wars mod. Nothing like watching a fleet of Star Destroyers descend on a pitiful Rebel base, turbolasers blazing.

UFO: Extraterrestrials isn't a bad X-Com-style game. The lack of player-MC is unfortunate, but it otherwise feels a bit like X-COM. Unfortunately, the new X-COM game is going to be a &%$#ing FPS, as if we need a new FPS, ever.

At any rate, this looks like its based off of the engine for Elven Legacy, so you might want to give those games a try. They're rather fun. Though, what I really want is something that'd be like Age of Wonders: Total War. King Arthur's a lot of fun, but it lacks 1) Polish and 2) Traditional fantasy troupes. I want dwarves, zombies, and orcs!
 
Elven Legacy is a great game, but is in style more like Fantasy General (the fantasy take on Panzer General), a tactial wargame with fantasy troops. Warlock is a Grand Strategy game more like Civ or Master of Magic if you wish. The likeness with EL I guess have mostly to do with that it's the same team (as you point out). I can tell you it looks and plays great so far, played 72 turns in two days, really stable and fun even if not everything is implemented yet. 4X fans have something to look forward to.
 
I can't deny that THIS is the game from Paradox that I'm most looking forward to at the moment.

Oh, and I like the new title, Fredrik. :)
 
Fredrik II said:
Elven Legacy is a great game, but is in style more like Fantasy General (the fantasy take on Panzer General), a tactial wargame with fantasy troops. Warlock is a Grand Strategy game more like Civ or Master of Magic if you wish. The likeness with EL I guess have mostly to do with that it's the same team (as you point out). I can tell you it looks and plays great so far, played 72 turns in two days, really stable and fun even if not everything is implemented yet. 4X fans have something to look forward to.
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I iz excite.
 
Fredrik II said:
Elven Legacy is a great game, but is in style more like Fantasy General (the fantasy take on Panzer General), a tactial wargame with fantasy troops. Warlock is a Grand Strategy game more like Civ or Master of Magic if you wish. The likeness with EL I guess have mostly to do with that it's the same team (as you point out). I can tell you it looks and plays great so far, played 72 turns in two days, really stable and fun even if not everything is implemented yet. 4X fans have something to look forward to.
Click to expand...
One of the things that made the 5-star series great, and which Fantasy Wars and Elven Legacy thankfully carried over, was not pandering to the lowest common denominator in the difficulty levels and providing a hard challenge for veteran players striving for brilliant victories (or gold medals, as it were) in the scenarios, while still allowing new players to succeed with effort and not making the normal difficulty level a walkthrough in the park for the average player.

What is the plan with respects to W:MotA in that respect?

A second question would be just how much of a Master of the Arcane the Warlock is going to be. The niché market of "fantasy civilization" it targets has been dominated by the venerable Master of Magic, the beautiful Age of Wonders (1-2), the Fall From Heaven mod (1-2) for Civilization 4, and the crazy-complex Dominions (1-3). Stardock's Elemental: WoM tried to get its foot in but failed due to its myriad failures of design and implementation.

So, just how important is magic going to be in W:MotA? Just how wild is it going to be? Just how limited by that bane of fun, which is limiting diversity in order to make things balanced?

I'm not expecting W:MotA to be anywhere near as complex in the magic or strategy department as Dominions 3, since the complexity involved is enough to make even grizzled players blanch when formulating and carrying out new strategies in MP, but it would be nice to know what player segment it is aimed at in terms of complexity.
 
Looks very promising. I shall keep close watch on this. :)

I loved Master of Magic, Fall from Heaven I and II and Age of Wonders I and II.

Strongly dislike Civilization 5 which was an utter disaster in my opinion.

As for people saying Stardock failed with Elemental, their "re-boot" with Elemental:Fallen Enchantress looks pretty darn good actually.

Glad to see 4X Strategy isn't dead anyway.
 
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