Granada

[Incompetent]

Sorry if there's already a general discussion thread for Granada, but I couldn't see any. I can think of two big topics for discussion:

What should we do about Granada's tech-group?
At the moment they would drop to Orthodox in 1427 and then get back to Latin with the Shepherd King, but these tech-group changes have been commented out. Should we put them back? Also, should we ever make Granada's tech-group suffer even if the Malwas don't take over, eg if they become very expansionist and narrow-minded?

Granada's expansion strategies
After finishing off the Iberians, Granada basically has three routes to expansion: northwards into France, southwards into Africa, or peaceful colonialism, and this is reflected in dynastic choices. The current setup is that the peaceful colonial route is default and easy, the African route is non-default, but still pretty easy, and the French route is extremely difficult and requires Granada to make huge sacrifices. I'm wondering about the relative rewards of these routes, especially given the new Gibraltar-Tangiers connection.

IMO, the difficulty of the French route is about right. However, the Yahwar peaceful route seems a bit weak, while the Moroccan route is now really easy, and with a land connection it gives quite substantial rewards when you consider that much of Africa is Arabic or Berber, even more is Sunni, and most of the rest is Pagan, so easily assimilated. The only danger is the West African Trade Bubble, but that will be avoided by any competent player, who can easily get Infra 7, Trade 6 by 1675.

 

[unmerged(38537)]

I think Granada should have the Muslim techgroup, so the Malwas would change it into Orthodox and "The Shepherd King" event would make it Latin.

But it's just my idea...

 

[MattyG]

Granada is one of the most interesting countries in the game, right up there with Byzantium as the benchmarks that every other set of files should aspire to.

However, it could be nerfed. I agree that the tech groups could be mixed up a little, although the danger with them dropping to Torthodox is that they will lose out in any tech race against the Europeans, who will eventually dismember them in the 1700s. Unless the get a steady stream of quality leaders and have a MP base that can face down tech disadvantage.

The African option would provide this. Perhap the way to go is that the Peaceful route sees them retain latin, so does the French route. But if they place their interests amid the more backward africans/berbers then their tech group drops to Torthodox, which will help to balance out the cheap MP they get from the straights.

 

[Incompetent]

Possibly, except that the African route is meant to be a route to economic prosperity. I'll take on Iberia for the moment, unless anyone else has plans for it, but mostly I'll be tidying up what's already there, as Granada's storyline is fairly well developed.

 

[MattyG]

Remember that the proposed changes to 'France' will impact Granada, especiallly the Shepherd King route. With southern France becoming Occitan it will impact that storyline, and maybe for the better. Instead of sheltering French protestants, he shelters Occitan protestants and can gain only Occitan culture, not French, although a little more easily so as to make it worthwhile.

We'll talk.

 

[Incompetent]

Remember that the proposed changes to 'France' will impact Granada, especiallly the Shepherd King route. With southern France becoming Occitan it will impact that storyline, and maybe for the better. Instead of sheltering French protestants, he shelters Occitan protestants and can gain only Occitan culture, not French, although a little more easily so as to make it worthwhile.

We'll talk.

NOTE: Granada is going to be turned into Cordoba. I agree with Calipah, it's a more suitable name given that they're in charge of most of Iberia, and Cordoba does have spiffy flags and shields.

Er, the Shepherd King is the one who gives Cordoba Iberian culture, and there's no choice in the matter (what kind of Iberian power would turn Iberian culture down?). Are you thinking of the Infidel King? He just represents the end of a series of events involving Cordoba in southern France; the whole process requires Cordoba to plan far in advance. I rather like the overall flow of these events, but they could do with some modifications.

One problem with the storyline is that if the Pays d'Oc is controlled by Reformed countries anyway, it doesn't make a lot of sense for the nobles to entreat the Muslims for aid. But if they do, I'll make sure the events allow Cordoba to push into the region slowly, with cores to aid the conquest where Cordoba has a justification for it, but also BB in places for balance. The effects of the 'Infidel King' event are a bit drastic and probably need to be spread over events in the centuries leading up to it.

 

[MattyG]

Er, the Shepherd King is the one who gives Cordoba Iberian culture, and there's no choice in the matter (what kind of Iberian power would turn Iberian culture down?). Are you thinking of the Infidel King? He just represents the end of a series of events involving Cordoba in southern France; the whole process requires Cordoba to plan far in advance. I rather like the overall flow of these events, but they could do with some modifications.

One problem with the storyline is that if the Pays d'Oc is controlled by Reformed countries anyway, it doesn't make a lot of sense for the nobles to entreat the Muslims for aid. But if they do, I'll make sure the events allow Cordoba to push into the region slowly, with cores to aid the conquest where Cordoba has a justification for it, but also BB in places for balance. The effects of the 'Infidel King' event are a bit drastic and probably need to be spread over events in the centuries leading up to it.

Infidel King, yes. Baby on my knee at the time, typing with one hand and concentrating on three things.

It would make sense for the muslims to be entreated for aid if Pays d'Oc comes out as a revolter (actually, the only way they can come into existence) and with Savoy and Brittany and Burgundy and Genoa all remaining Catholic, they would be looking for shelter from that storm of revenge, just like the French Protestants.

To make the Infidel King cycle more likely (because it is so cool) we can make it that he is called upon for either religious reasons or cultural ones. ie., the Oc feel they are repressed by the Savoyards are turn to the apparently-multicultural Cordobans to enjoin them in their state, or to accept them as protected vassals.

 

[yourworstnightm]

If Granada/Cordoba go for southern France the sout french states could be split in a Savoyard party (seek protection from moselms) and a iberian party (seek protection from catholics and other intolerant empires).