Great (Beer) Replacement

[Ming]

I was looking up the oldest Breweries in America and an interesting thing I have noticed is that nearly all large, long-standing breweries in the United States are descended from German immigrant brewers.

This is interesting because while Germans are well known for their love of Beer, the English, Irish, and Scotts immigrants to the 13 colonies *also* drank Beer and brewing was very popular among the original settlers. Founding Father Samuel Adams operated a brewery at one point.

So how come none of these breweries got big and survived to modern times?

In my very unscientific research, I can only find an example of one brewery that rose to national or even regional prominence after prohibition ended that wasn't started by a German immigrant: The now defunct Ballantine beer company which was started by a Scottish immigrant. (I would guess that even though it was popular around WW2 and Ronald Reagan liked their beer most Americans on the internet don't know about this brand anymore)

I'm sure you can find some small town local brewery in Maine that lasted for over a hundred years but it seems odd that absolutely none of the English/native brewers would be able to make the successful leap to 20th century conglomerate. Especially since Canadian brewers formed national conglomerates with Molson and Labatts.

Sure, Prohibition was a natural bottleneck, but why would the Germans be uniquely equipped to survive it?

Did pre-prohibition temperance movements create a cultural shift so 'native' brewers exited the industry willingly? Did WASPY old money people regard investing in things like beer and liquor to be unseemly? (Why was Canada different? They had temperance too.)

The corollary to all this, is that the successful breweries are all German and not some other nationality. There are no Czech, Polish, Dutch, Swedish, Danish, or other brewing cutlure origin conglomerates that began in the 19th century.


Just seems odd.

 

[Kazanov]

Happens here too. My theory is that Germans (and Belgians) make beer with the love and dedication of an artist, its the conection they have with their ancestors and with their country of origin.
Meanwhile, the others just do it for profit, when it stops being profitable, they just stop making it.

Best beers here are, like in the XIX century, brewed by Germans and Belgians, followed by hipsters who try to emulate them.

 

[Abdul Goatherd]

English were never really into beer. They brewed ale, which is largely unhopped and spoils easily. Ales are OK if you live in the countryside, near where it is made, but not good for storage or transportation. So while there were plenty of rural alehouses, ales weren't easy to find in English towns and cities. Despite active promotion for its "healthier" content, they never really that popular until quite late - imported wine or spirits (like gin and whisky) were the traditional drinks of choice. And, of course, tea.

Germans, by contrast, were brewing beer with hops since the 9th Century. Hops is a preservative, so beer lasts much longer than ale, and can be stored and transported. Hopped beer is an old and well-established tradition in Germany. It was their staple drink - they drank it morning, noon and night. They brought that with them when they immigrated - much to the scandal of their Anglo neighbors. Beer was drunk openly by all the family (and not merely by adult male drunks in dark hidden taverns)

Scotch-Irish immigrants, by contrast, distilled whisky. Loads of it.

 

[Rubidium]

Worth noting that for much of the 19th century, the Temperance movement (which led to prohibition) was strongly tied to upper-class, English-descended folks. Especially before the Civil War, it was one of the stereotypes that was used to criticize the (mostly German and Irish) recent immigrants, as being a bunch of alcoholics compared to the more "straight-laced" earlier immigrants.

It wouldn't surprise me if that level of stereotyping both made it socially difficult for folks who identified as WASPs to go into brewing, and also made it more likely for breweries to be founded by German immigrants (as one of the socially expected things for them to do, both in terms of being coded "ok" for them, and coded as "good brewers" for their customers). It would be far from the only case of immigrants being funneled by social pressure into certain industries (there are long dissertations that can and have been written about Chinese laundries in America, for example).

But everything in the second paragraph is just speculation.

 

[Barsoom]

Happens here too. My theory is that Germans (and Belgians) make beer with the love and dedication of an artist, its the conection they have with their ancestors and with their country of origin.

Germans and Belgians are true masters of brewing but it doesn't explain their success in the US because it isn't the same beer. US beer has been accurately described as "watery tiss" by the Economist, which also informed its readers that it put the t there for politeness sake. A more colorful description is "like making love in a canoo, f*ing close to water."

 

[Herbert West]

There are three nations onto which God, in his infinite Grace, bestowed the ability to make beer.

These are, in order, the Belgians, the Germans, and the Czechs. All other nations should cease their childish experimentation with the vile liquids they produce, and merely copy, as is their lot, the works of their betters.

Amen

 

[Easy-Kill]

There are three nations onto which God, in his infinite Grace, bestowed the ability to make beer.

These are, in order, the Belgians, the Germans, and the Czechs. All other nations should cease their childish experimentation with the vile liquids they produce, and merely copy, as is their lot, the works of their betters.

Amen

Copy is the key word. All German and Czech beers taste the same. This might be great if you like Helles and only eat deep fried pork ... but I like a little taste to my beer.

I will give you Belgium though ... provided you mean their fine monastary style beers

 

[Herbert West]

I will give you Belgium though ... provided you mean their fine monastary style beers

I was speaking about God, so, naturally, yes.

 

[Ming]

All the ideas mentioned in the thread make sense, and no doubt contributed (The wiki article about American Beer pretty much repeats what Abul and Rubidium suggested, and the Civil War era song 'I goes to fight mit Siegel' even razzes the Germans about their thirst for Lager) but I'm skeptical they fully explain why 'native' brewers lost out to german conglomerates.

I'll say again. The anglo/scotch/irish americans *did* brew beer and they did create successful conglomerates. . . outside the United States.

As I mentioned before Labatt (Irish), Molson (English), Carling (English) were founded very early in the 19th century and Canada had temperance and even outright prohibition! They had far fewer Germans to compete with (and presumably never acquired the 'coding' that 'germans do beer') but the idea that British Isle origin brewers weren't interested in commercialized brewing seems to be false.

Then we have Foster's in Australia: Started in 1886 by two AMERICANS (?!?!)

There isn't a straightforward line between 19th century brewery and 20th century international conglomerate, there are often a bunch of mergers, buyouts, and bankruptcy rescues along the way, but I'm still puzzled that there seems to be exactly one path in the United States that starts with 'non german brewer', and exactly zero that make it to the 21st century.

 

[Jopa79]

The corollary to all this, is that the successful breweries are all German and not some other nationality. There are no Czech, Polish, Dutch, Swedish, Danish, or other brewing cutlure origin conglomerates that began in the 19th century.

Nikolai Sinebrychoff was a Russian businessman, who settled in the Grand Duchy of Finland and founded the Sinebrychoff Brewery in 1819.

The Sinebrychoff Brewery is still running today, however under the Danish Carlsberg Brewery. The Sinebrychoff is the oldest food industry company and the third oldest of all companies running in Finland today. The most well-known Sinebrychoff label is the lager beer, Koff.

Sinebrychoff Brewery horse wagons during the early 1900's in Helsinki.

 

[Barsoom]

The corollary to all this, is that the successful breweries are all German and not some other nationality. There are no Czech, Polish, Dutch, Swedish, Danish, or other brewing cutlure origin conglomerates that began in the 19th century.

Heineken started in 1863. Grolsch (since 1615) modernized in 1875.

 

[Jopa79]

Heineken started in 1863. Grolsch (since 1615) modernized in 1875.

Heineken is good.

 

[Barsoom]

Heineken is good.

It's a good example but a crap beer. It's like a McDonalds hamburger, too sweet and full of unhealthy additives.
Grolsch is both a good example and an excellent beer.

We've had our arguments before but this one is from the heart.

 

[Ming]

Heineken started in 1863. Grolsch (since 1615) modernized in 1875.

Sorry, If I wasn't clear. I was discussing *American* conglomerates whose origin was in immigrant communities.

There are no 20th century american beer conglomerates with roots in breweries founded by Dutch, Czech, Polish, Swedish, Danish or any other immigrant brewers beyond Germans. (Although geographically Czech styles of beer made it over, the actual brewers seem to be ethnically German)

Heineken was founded in the netherlands, and went on to form a Dutch conglomerate which then expanded to the US, but their original brewery is in the netherlands. That's not what I was referring to.

 

[Barsoom]

Sorry, If I wasn't clear. I was discussing *American* conglomerates whose origin was in immigrant communities.

There are no 20th century american beer conglomerates with roots in breweries founded by Dutch, Czech, Polish, Swedish, Danish or any other immigrant brewers beyond Germans. (Although geographically Czech styles of beer made it over, the actual brewers seem to be ethnically German)

Heineken was founded in the netherlands, and went on to form a Dutch conglomerate which then expanded to the US, but their original brewery is in the netherlands. That's not what I was referring to.

I got confused by the references to Australia and other places in your next post.

Speaking only of the US, Budweiser does have partly Czech roots, as the Germans who founded it wanted to make a Bohemian style beer and used an existing name for it. Coors bought its original recipe from a Czech immigrant. I have no idea how they ended up with their current products which don't taste like the Czech beers I've had, or like beer really.

 

[Herbert West]

I have no idea how they ended up with their current products which don't taste like the Czech beers I've had, or like beer really.

Prohibition. Any time there is a quirk in US alcohol production, if the company has been around long enough, the answer is prohibition.

 

[Ming]

I got confused by the references to Australia and other places in your next post.

Speaking only of the US, Budweiser does have partly Czech roots, as the Germans who founded it wanted to make a Bohemian style beer and used an existing name for it. Coors bought its original recipe from a Czech immigrant. I have no idea how they ended up with their current products which don't taste like the Czech beers I've had, or like beer really.

Yeah, sorry. I brought Canada up as a counterpoint to the 'British settlers only made Rural Ale and were teetotalers' that Abdul and Rubidium mentioned and Australia as an example where non-German Americans set up a brewery that lasted. (by going outside the country)

They're not wrong, it just doesn't seem like it wouldn't be a sufficient explanation based on what happened in those places.

 

[Barsoom]

Prohibition. Any time there is a quirk in US alcohol production, if the company has been around long enough, the answer is prohibition.

Yeah, probably. Though, why didn't they use their old recipes?

 

[Ming]

Prohibition. Any time there is a quirk in US alcohol production, if the company has been around long enough, the answer is prohibition.

Yeah, probably. Though, why didn't they use their old recipes?

I'm no expert, but wiki claims the problem is more lack of old world ingredients and WW2 grain rationing than prohibition.

American lager - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Both Canada[2] and the United States were traditionally ale (and whisky) consuming regions in the British traditions before the late 19th century. Pale lager was later introduced to both Canada and the United States by German immigrants. These German brewers developed their beers from the American six-row barley which has a higher tannic acid and protein content and greater huskper weight than continental European barleys (two-row barley). In addition, the Tettnanger and Saaz hops of Europe were not available. Therefore, to balance taste, and dilute the excessive protein, the grain mixture was adjusted by adding up to 30% corn to the barley malt mash. However, the beer was brewed to full-fledged European strength and to the practices of a pale lager style. Later, rice gained popularity in the domestic brewing market during World War II, due to grain rationing on the home-front. Most breweries were unable to afford the necessary amounts of barley required for production and so began using rice as a filler. After the war, the process was not changed[citation needed].

While I have no way of knowing exactly how true that story is, I can say that I know the great abomination that is 'American Cheese' is only still a thing because people got used to eating it in WW2 and it stuck around and became a thing some even pretend to like.

 

[Jopa79]

The winter is slowly turning into spring. We are going to open the "summer cottage season" next week. I think, I'm going to have some porter. Any good recommendations regarding fine brands?