Hoi2 (3 ?)- 1908-2008

[ROMANU]

I've been thinking, if there's a 1914mod, a interbellum-mod, a lot of mods for WW2, a cold war mod, and a modern day mod, why couldn't it be a mod that covers 100 years
I'm not a modder, but I think that if all the people that have projects by themselves would unite, something like this would come out. I mean, the data is here, the events are here,flags, units, ministers... etc all that is needed is an AI that is capabile to get, after 100 years to a plausablile outcome in an off-hands game, series of events regarding births and deaths of leaders/ministers... events like "people what peace" or coups that will end too long wars and to avoid totaly loosing a war... also serries of claims for socialist and nationalist countries (a nazi Hungary would want all of slovacia, croatia and transilvania, but a leninist one would ask for nothing)
also there sould be a couple of "what if" huge couple of events (what if germany har won WW1, Lenin failed, second USA civil war, nationalist china won, manchu dinasty still exists, Hitler failed, Germay won WW2, conflict between USSR and USA, communist USA etc) that will alter somehow the course of history.
Don't know if it is posibile... but this is one of my dreams regarding hoi

 

[unmerged(54763)]

I've been thinking, if there's a 1914mod, a interbellum-mod, a lot of mods for WW2, a cold war mod, and a modern day mod, why couldn't it be a mod that covers 100 years
I'm not a modder, but I think that if all the people that have projects by themselves would unite, something like this would come out. I mean, the data is here, the events are here,flags, units, ministers... etc all that is needed is an AI that is capabile to get, after 100 years to a plausablile outcome in an off-hands game, series of events regarding births and deaths of leaders/ministers... events like "people what peace" or coups that will end too long wars and to avoid totaly loosing a war... also serries of claims for socialist and nationalist countries (a nazi Hungary would want all of slovacia, croatia and transilvania, but a leninist one would ask for nothing)
also there sould be a couple of "what if" huge couple of events (what if germany har won WW1, Lenin failed, second USA civil war, nationalist china won, manchu dinasty still exists, Hitler failed, Germay won WW2, conflict between USSR and USA, communist USA etc) that will alter somehow the course of history.
Don't know if it is posibile... but this is one of my dreams regarding hoi

A perfect grand scale strategic game will be one involving WW 1 an WW 2.

I must be clear that any atempt to make real strategy spanning 20-century must start with ww1.

Becouse WW1 is a mother,and a father of world we live in today.

A game that should start historicaly just before ww1 and than be able to give to player what-if in hall 20-century-now that game will be truly masterpiece and King of the Kings of hall strategies.

Imagine ww1,and thereafter rewriting history of 20. century,now that will be realy nothing seen before, dwarfing even EU3.

Such game requires not "engine" but deep knowledge of political and social causes that resulted in world we live in.With imagination ,based of this knowledge,of what may be our world if turning points of history passed in different way.I am not talking about EU 3 possibilities to have machine guns in middle ages,but of politicaly and historicaly imaginable(restricted) possibilities.

Such game will be something special.

 

[ROMANU]

Such game requires not "engine" but deep knowledge of political and social causes that resulted in world we live in.With imagination ,based of this knowledge,of what may be our world if turning points of history passed in different way.I am not talking about EU 3 possibilities to have machine guns in middle ages,but of politicaly and historicaly imaginable(restricted) possibilities..

exactly, so it can be done on the hoi2 basis

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

A perfect grand scale strategic game will be one involving WW 1 an WW 2

If there ever is such a game which is based on the HoI-engine then any human player will make sure that there will be only one World War.

It will be almost impossible to model both World Wars in one game and still keep it interesting for human players.

The longer the game the more difficult it will be to have plausible outcomes. Even with the current HoI2 it already is hard to do that. f.e. the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact only makes sense if these two guys are both foreign-minister if you have changed them with other people the whole name of the pact is nonsense.

 

[unmerged(54763)]

If there ever is such a game which is based on the HoI-engine then any human player will make sure that there will be only one World War.

It will be almost impossible to model both World Wars in one game and still keep it interesting for human players.

The longer the game the more difficult it will be to have plausible outcomes. Even with the current HoI2 it already is hard to do that. f.e. the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact only makes sense if these two guys are both foreign-minister if you have changed them with other people the whole name of the pact is nonsense.

I agree.Future is allmost inpredictable if we look on this that way.It is allmost certain that ww1 campaign will denie to great extent historical possibilities that lead to ww2 becouse player will change the path of history.


But it will be interesting to have world wars as separate scenarios.
First ww1 campaign.Then ww2 campaign.

We could have allso for instance ww1 campaign set to end(if player wants)when one side achieves requierd victory points.After this is achieved we could have a possibility to shift situation to 1936 .I know something like this exists within Victoria.

But,after rethinking I must agree with you that this is questionable. o

 

[unmerged(40779)]

I don't see the problem with human player making future events impossible. We already have a 1936 scenario, and if I play Germany the world will never look like it does in the 1944 scenario. This throws the WW3 out of the window, but so what? If I want to play the WW3 exactly like it "should be", I just take that 1945-scenario.

If we had a time span of 100 years, and I took the 1908 scenario as Germany, conquered the world before 1940, it would be no different than it is now when you win too early.
However, I would also have the chance to play historically. Or as historically as I wanted. Or to just take a 1914, or 1921, or whatever scenario I wanted, and build on that.

Its not like EU2 GC should start in 1790 instead of 1490 just to assure that Napoleonic Wars will happen.

 

[Alex_brunius]

The longer the game the more difficult it will be to have plausible outcomes. Even with the current HoI2 it already is hard to do that. f.e. the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact only makes sense if these two guys are both foreign-minister if you have changed them with other people the whole name of the pact is nonsense.

With a smarter engine that would call the event by the names of the foreign ministers instead of molotov-ribbentrop it would be both realistic and make sense.

If the british exp. force is surrounded at dieppe instead of dunkirque it would make sense to have an dynamic event named "The miracle of [insert name of province X]" Instead that could move them home safetly at the cost of some convoys & escorts.

Ofcourse many of the more specific flavour events would have to go in such a game simply because like you said the further you try to predict the smaller the chanse of an actuall historic outcome.

But by making the events more general and having a vastly improved diplomatic & economic systems that work together I don't think its impossible to at least make a interresting game spanning 1910-1970 with a possible World War 3 or Space race as an ending.

The game could be tweaked so that any country after around 5years of major warfare would be exhausted on both manpower and resources and thus forcing all players to take a pause and recover, rebuild and reinforce what they have conqured or mourn their losses. War should be something thats destructive to everyone that happens to live nearby.

Smart events that trigger off "day X after opening/ending of hostilitys" or "more than X units/men of type Y lost within Z days" would help to mark turning points or other important things.
Major battles and encirclements could get really cool random events with dynamic names and effects, such as +0.10% dissent for each of your divisions destroyed in encirclement. Or 3% chanse to gain blueprint of enemy tech for every division or attachment of that type you destroy.

This could be worked further upon to label any bigger decicive battles as "historical" and developing a fully dynamic event system that Give appropiate bonuses so that a pearl harbour class victory will increasing morale throughout the country for 6 months.

This can go as far as your fantasy takes it. Dynamic "Marshal Plan" type events for rebuilding after a major war could trigger if you have larger industry than your allies. As well as dynamic war penalty events where the victors can decide for themself how harsh they want to be.

Other important things in such long term games for balance would be Resource storage caps, and that isolationism will increase slowly with time if no active diplomatic action or wars is undertaken.

For a working spy system look at the latest expansion of Civ4 and be inspired. Wonderful solution that kills the micromanagement in HoI2 spying with a single slider movement.

 

[henryjai]

no i would like players not to play too many years....that should be something like empire building rather than Strategy game. (empire building is fun too...)

Paradox have to make a way better game before being too ambitious to make an Empire building game.

 

[ROMANU]

yes, the dynamics of the events would be esencial. regarding avoiding a 100 year war there sould be events for democracies like "people want peace, general strike!" that will increase the dissent ant also trigger peace talks between the 2 parts. In dictatorships there sould be coupes if the Ai or player chooses to continue the war. this evets would trigger if manpower is kept low, low IC loosing units on the front etc...
anyway, the most important thing would be an AI that in an off-hands scenario would lead to USA, GER or USSR