I'm wondering if anyone could come up with some monarchs and maybe a few leaders for the 1433 - 1580 period for Holland/Friesland, for if they remain independant? Who were the heads of the Council of Holland from 1433 - 1580?
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heh found em 
what do you think of these for leaders? Assuming that after the Wittelsbachs were out of there and no Burgundy that the House of Oranje-Nassau would be elected Count.
historicalmonarch = {
id = { type = 6 id = 09901 }
name = "Engelbert I of Nassau"
startdate = {
day = 12
month = april
year = 1433
}
enddate = {
year = 1442
}
DIP = 8
ADM = 6
MIL = 4
}
historicalmonarch = {
id = { type = 6 id = 09902 }
name = "Johan IV of Nassau"
startdate = {
year = 1442
}
enddate = {
year = 1475
}
DIP = 5
ADM = 3
MIL = 4
}
historicalmonarch = {
id = { type = 6 id = 09903 }
name = "Johan V of Nassau"
startdate = {
year = 1475
}
enddate = {
year = 1516
}
DIP = 4
ADM = 5
MIL = 3
}
historicalmonarch = {
id = { type = 6 id = 09904 }
name = "Willem de Rijke"
startdate = {
year = 1516
}
enddate = {
year = 1559
}
DIP = 6
ADM = 7
MIL = 6
what do you think of these for leaders? Assuming that after the Wittelsbachs were out of there and no Burgundy that the House of Oranje-Nassau would be elected Count.historicalmonarch = {
id = { type = 6 id = 09901 }
name = "Engelbert I of Nassau"
startdate = {
day = 12
month = april
year = 1433
}
enddate = {
year = 1442
}
DIP = 8
ADM = 6
MIL = 4
}
historicalmonarch = {
id = { type = 6 id = 09902 }
name = "Johan IV of Nassau"
startdate = {
year = 1442
}
enddate = {
year = 1475
}
DIP = 5
ADM = 3
MIL = 4
}
historicalmonarch = {
id = { type = 6 id = 09903 }
name = "Johan V of Nassau"
startdate = {
year = 1475
}
enddate = {
year = 1516
}
DIP = 4
ADM = 5
MIL = 3
}
historicalmonarch = {
id = { type = 6 id = 09904 }
name = "Willem de Rijke"
startdate = {
year = 1516
}
enddate = {
year = 1559
}
DIP = 6
ADM = 7
MIL = 6
Err.. who's to say the Wittlesbachs would be kicked out? When Jacoba dies shouldn't it revert to the Bavarian or Rhine branches since she had no heirs?
It did! Philip III was her nephew, and had the strongest claim. If it doesn't go to him, then you have to assume a local house has taken up the slack so to speak.
Possible Wittlesbach canidates:
Her four siblings:
Ludwig
Johann
Wilhelm
Eberhard
Of those Eberhard would be the best canidate since he was the only one to have children.
Possible Bavarian Wittlesbachs:
Children of Ludwig IX "der Reiche":
Duke Georg "der Reiche" of Bavaria in Landshut and Ingolstadt
Elisabeth
Margarete
Anna
Possible Rhine Wittlesbachs:
Ludwig IV "der Sanftmüthige's only child:
Philipp "der Aufrichtige"
Her four siblings:
Ludwig
Johann
Wilhelm
Eberhard
Of those Eberhard would be the best canidate since he was the only one to have children.
Possible Bavarian Wittlesbachs:
Children of Ludwig IX "der Reiche":
Duke Georg "der Reiche" of Bavaria in Landshut and Ingolstadt
Elisabeth
Margarete
Anna
Possible Rhine Wittlesbachs:
Ludwig IV "der Sanftmüthige's only child:
Philipp "der Aufrichtige"
the House of Oranje has the advantage of making sense as it turns into the Netherlands though.
... and the Wittlesbachs had dynastic claims to it. Perhaps an event for Holland is in order? They get to choose from which branch their leaders come from. Jacoba was Wittlebach, so I presume that she'd favor Wittlesbach candiates over a local offical.
Who's going to lead us?
1. Bavarian Wittelsbachs
a. +150 relations with Bavaria
b. Bavarian leaders...
2. Rhine Wittelsbachs
a. +150 relations with Rhine Palatinate
b. Rhine leaders...
3. Local officals
a. +3 stability
b. +1 centralization
c. allow Holland to become Netherlands pre 1560s
d. Local leaders...
(If Holland chooses choice 1 or 2 they lose all chance of themselves becoming Netherlands before 1560)
Who's going to lead us?
1. Bavarian Wittelsbachs
a. +150 relations with Bavaria
b. Bavarian leaders...
2. Rhine Wittelsbachs
a. +150 relations with Rhine Palatinate
b. Rhine leaders...
3. Local officals
a. +3 stability
b. +1 centralization
c. allow Holland to become Netherlands pre 1560s
d. Local leaders...
(If Holland chooses choice 1 or 2 they lose all chance of themselves becoming Netherlands before 1560)
BTW, here's a link with geneology for all of the major dynasties of Europe:
http://www2.webpark.cz/miramarek/genealogie/index.html
http://www2.webpark.cz/miramarek/genealogie/index.html
The Wittelsbachs didn't have a claim after Jacobaa's death. What happened was this - Emperor Ludwig IV (also Duke of Bavaria) had two wives, the first was Beatrix of Silesia-Glogau, the second was Margrethe III, Countess of Holland and Hainaut in her own right. The main line of Wittelsbachs, the later Dukes of Bavaria, were descended from the first marriage, not the second, and thus have no claim to Holland and Hainaut as they aren't descended from the Countess Margrethe. The Palatinate line doesn't even come close, as that line had split off from the main Wittelsbach line long before Margrethe III married into it. The counts after Margrethe III:
Willem V of Holland - the son of Margrethe and Ludwig
Albrecht I of Hollnad - his brother
Willem VI of Holland - Albrecht's son
Jacobaa - Willem's only legitimate child (those brothers Fate listed were illegitmate and thus barred from inheriting)
Since Jacobaa didn't have any children, her heirs were the descendents of her aunt Margrethe, the older sister of her father and the daughter of Albrecht I. Well, guess who Margrethe had married? Jean of Bourgogne! Her son was Philippe III, and was by every reasonable reckoning, the legal heir of his cousin the Countess of Holland and Hainaut. Her Witteslbach cousins had no claim, since, as I said earlier, they weren't descendnats of Margrethe III.
Willem V of Holland - the son of Margrethe and Ludwig
Albrecht I of Hollnad - his brother
Willem VI of Holland - Albrecht's son
Jacobaa - Willem's only legitimate child (those brothers Fate listed were illegitmate and thus barred from inheriting)
Since Jacobaa didn't have any children, her heirs were the descendents of her aunt Margrethe, the older sister of her father and the daughter of Albrecht I. Well, guess who Margrethe had married? Jean of Bourgogne! Her son was Philippe III, and was by every reasonable reckoning, the legal heir of his cousin the Countess of Holland and Hainaut. Her Witteslbach cousins had no claim, since, as I said earlier, they weren't descendnats of Margrethe III.
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Exactly Demitrios. Philip III of Burgundy was Jacqueline's nephew, and had the strongest claim to the County of Holland other than Jacqueline herself. If Holland didn't accept Philip as their ruler, the only other real option is electing a local baron to rule, and the most influential family in the low countries at that point was the House of Nassau. Thus my choice
What about Wilhelm II's siblings and their offspring? Albrecht I, Wilhelm II's father, was Count of Holland, Zeeland, and Hainault as well. Is it a possibility that Albrecht I's other children could have claims to the County of Holland, Zeeland, and Hainault?
Children of Albrecth I, Duke of Bavaria-Straubing, Count of Holland, Zeeland and Hainault:
1. Count Wilhelm II of Holland, Hainault and Seeland
2. Albrecht
3. Johann, Duke of Bavaria-Straubing, Count of Hainault, Holland and Seeland 1418
4. Katharina
5. Johanna
6. Margarete
7. Johanna
Children of Albrecth I, Duke of Bavaria-Straubing, Count of Holland, Zeeland and Hainault:
1. Count Wilhelm II of Holland, Hainault and Seeland
2. Albrecht
3. Johann, Duke of Bavaria-Straubing, Count of Hainault, Holland and Seeland 1418
4. Katharina
5. Johanna
6. Margarete
7. Johanna
Their descendents certainly did have a claim, and the one with the best claim, Philippe of Bourgogne, certainly made good on that claim. That was the point of my earlier post...
If you are using the geneology from the site you pointed out earlier (nice site, BTW, I have bookmarked it), you'll see that Albrecht died childless in 1397 and Johann died in 1425 having no legitimate offspring. Katharina and Johanna both died childless (in 1400 and 1386 respectively). So by 1425, all the sons and the two eldest daughters of Albrecht I were dead, leaving no legitimate descendants other than Countess Jacobaa of Hainaut and Holland, meaning that the third daughter and her heirs would be next in line to inherit those counties. But the third daughter, Margarete, the one I pointed out in my earlier post, look who she married - Duke Jean of Bourgogne! She did have legitmate offspring; her oldest son was Duke Philippe III of Burgundy, who as I said, was by any reckoning the legal heir of his cousin Jacobaa to the Counties of Hainaut and Holland.
Actually, the 2nd Johanna had children with Heinrich IV of Bavaria. (You can reach that page by clicking on his highlighted name, the site does not list the children on the page of the mother, but with the page of the father.)
Johanna (II?) and Heinrich IV of Bavaria's children:
Duke Albrecht V of Austria
Margarete
Alas, I suppose Johanna (II?) and her offspring have less claim than the older sister, Margarete. I now agree local rulers must be used, or Holland must be forced through events into Burgundy. Although it would be interesting to have Austria meddling in Holland before 1470s.
Johanna (II?) and Heinrich IV of Bavaria's children:
Duke Albrecht V of Austria
Margarete
Alas, I suppose Johanna (II?) and her offspring have less claim than the older sister, Margarete. I now agree local rulers must be used, or Holland must be forced through events into Burgundy. Although it would be interesting to have Austria meddling in Holland before 1470s.
The site we're talking about is a geneology site which covers most of the dynasties in Europe.
http://www2.webpark.cz/miramarek/genealogie/index.html
http://www2.webpark.cz/miramarek/genealogie/index.html
