Holy Wars

[Archivist0000]

I know this has come up a few times in certain threads but I figured I'd mention in via this format so as to give it some more attention and space to be considered. So, what are peoples' thoughts on holy wars? I figure it would kind of make a lot of sense particularly with followers of Rhllor and The Seven (please correct me if The Seven already have that ability).

On the topic of Rhllor, how much sense do people believe a similar cardinal system would make?

 

[DarkReborn]

The High Septon can declare a war against an "anathema" of the Faith - basically someone excommunicated - if he has high enough Faith Authority. The most remote example I can think of either the FOTS or R'hllor declaring something like a holy war are the Andal invaders destroying the weirwoods and the red priests trying to burn the black goat of qohor... and those are very remote.

The Autocephalous priests (pentarchy) fit better with Rhllor IMHO than the college of cardinals. 2 of the 4 red priests (Melissandre and Thoros) we know work rather independently and seem to do all the spiritual services by themselves in the area where they were assigned to, without any further interference by the high priest other than being sent there by him.

 

[Archivist0000]

They're all very fair points. Thanks for the response

 

[Ziemonysl]

You know, with the World of Ice and Fire out, more details on the Andal Invasion and the different faiths of Planetos, doesn't it seem like Holy Wars between different faiths could be brought back into this mod? It doesn't seem that out of place that religion would be used to for reasons to invade now that we know;

-Baelor the Blessed considered launching a Holy War on the Old Gods
-The Andal Invasion really was one giant Crusade.
-Of course, the Faith Rebellion at the start of Aenys' reign, although that is more a of revolt against tyranny in terms of game casus belli.

Also, what is the thought on reforming certain religions? I was always bummed a little that the Old Gods Faith can't be reformed, although I know it would seem to not fit very well with how the Old Gods is presented in the series, I think it would be a cool option, and with all the holy sites being so hard to grab, it would be well-worth the challenge.

 

[Pokonic]

One could make a case that the regular Old Gods religion is the 'reformed' version of the Beyond The Wall Old Gods, given that the former is basically a more civilized version of the latter. Having a event where a regular practitioner of the Old Gods religion, perhaps a especially zealous individual, has a vision that tells them that they need to feed the gods, possibly turning them into a effective practitioner of the Beyond The Wall gods, might be interesting. A lot of the deeds of the more pious Stark kings of old are highly similar to some of the Bolton ones, really.

That said, I'm interested about what could be done with a 'Primitive Andal' sort of faith, the one which had warriors that carved the seven-sided star in their flesh and had little tolerance for non-practitioners; you could get a event when the Faith of the Seven's authority is really low, and get reactionary peasant preachers who install one of their own as a particually aggressive High Septon.

 

[D Toccs]

-The Andal Invasion really was one giant Crusade.
.

No it wasn't, it was a mass migration over a couple hunrded years.

 

[Rozmarzony]

We need to have CB to simulate Baelor wishes.

 

[Ziemonysl]

One could make a case that the regular Old Gods religion is the 'reformed' version of the Beyond The Wall Old Gods, given that the former is basically a more civilized version of the latter. Having a event where a regular practitioner of the Old Gods religion, perhaps a especially zealous individual, has a vision that tells them that they need to feed the gods, possibly turning them into a effective practitioner of the Beyond The Wall gods, might be interesting. A lot of the deeds of the more pious Stark kings of old are highly similar to some of the Bolton ones, really.

That said, I'm interested about what could be done with a 'Primitive Andal' sort of faith, the one which had warriors that carved the seven-sided star in their flesh and had little tolerance for non-practitioners; you could get a event when the Faith of the Seven's authority is really low, and get reactionary peasant preachers who install one of their own as a particually aggressive High Septon.

Honestly I don't understand why the Wildings, Mountain Tribes, and the Northmen don't all just have the same Old Gods faith. They already have traits that differentiate them and different cultures, is it really necessary to have different religions when they barely do anything and are just for flavor?

And Old Gods or the North is no more civilized than the Wildings, there are no established priests (in the books), no prayer book, etc. Just because it is practiced by individuals who are considered more "civilized" does not make the faith more civilized.

 

[locustgate]

The High Septon can declare a war against an "anathema" of the Faith - basically someone excommunicated - if he has high enough Faith Authority. The most remote example I can think of either the FOTS or R'hllor declaring something like a holy war are the Andal invaders destroying the weirwoods and the red priests trying to burn the black goat of qohor... and those are very remote.

I'd count the Andal invasion as more of a genocide, at least the first couple of generations. All along the Vale's coast the Andals slaughtered every (First Man) man, woman, and child even when they converted to the Seven. There was one lord that married his daughter to an Andal Petty King's heir, he and his sons married the King's daughters and had his entire family convert to the seven, the Andal King killed his entire family, locked in a room for a year till the King's daughter produced a child then he vanished, while his daughter was the only survivor. The First Man's capitol was said the streets ranred with first man blood for days

 

[knuckey]

Honestly I don't understand why the Wildings, Mountain Tribes, and the Northmen don't all just have the same Old Gods faith. They already have traits that differentiate them and different cultures, is it really necessary to have different religions when they barely do anything and are just for flavor?

And Old Gods or the North is no more civilized than the Wildings, there are no established priests (in the books), no prayer book, etc. Just because it is practiced by individuals who are considered more "civilized" does not make the faith more civilized.

The wildlings and northmen will intermarry if they are the same religion, even with the wildling trait opinion malus. This is not very desirable.

 

[ramblymanguthri]

But the Beyond The Wall Old Gods and Old Gods religions already have the intermarry clause.

 

[knuckey]

But the Beyond The Wall Old Gods and Old Gods religions already have the intermarry clause.

The AI doesn't seem to make use of those intermarry options, it seems to be only for the player's benefit.

 

[surihtanil]

I would like to make a amazing R'hllor character with high combat skill and conquer Westeros.