Homeless all over the park

[S0mEPeoPLe]

Information​

When reporting a crash, stability or performance problems, please use the Report a Crash button on the earlier screen​

[CLICK] I understand

Required​

Summary​

Homeless all over the park

Steps to reproduce​

Update the game from 1.2.5f1 to 1.3.3f1 and use the same game save

Expected Result​

A reasonable number of Homeless people can be observed in the park

Actual Result​

The park was flooded with homeless people

Game Version​

1.3.3f1

What mods do you have installed?​

-[all region pack]
-All Aboard! (Faster Boarding Mod)
-Achievement Enabler

Affected Feature​

• Balance

Platform​

• Steam

Additional Information​

Save Game​

View attachment 05-July-11-58-18.cok

Other Attachments​

 

[Andyh12]

Well, yup, it would appear you have the same issue as me.
Ive given up.
Im aware others have an issue, theres a post in the general forum "A question about 20k homeless cims - modded game" which talks about the same thing.
Alas, zero response - makes the game entirely unplayable.
I loose count of the number of cities ive starter, then had to give up, or had them break or be deleted after an update.
The game is unplayable without mods - and unplayable with them (not knocking the modders, your time an effort is greatly appreciated, but i totally understand why people give up updating them!)

I wish you all the best at getting this resolved, but i wont hold my breath.

Can anyone suggest a city builder game that works?

 

[Satrustegui]

Jumping too to comment that I have the same issue.

- Some parks (not all of them) gather a lot of homeless cims.
- They seem stuck in there.
- Some parks seem to be more prone to have the issue than others (bigger parks, but there are differences in between the big parks too)
- The homeless cims are not reflected in the stats - In my current save I see officially cca. 15 homeless cims, but in one park alone I can click on hundreds.
- Sometimes, out of the blue, a huge wave of homeless leave the map
- To have the public transportation at 0 price in all lines, helps with this huge wave
- The issue always come back

 

[Andyh12]

Jumping too to comment that I have the same issue.

- Some parks (not all of them) gather a lot of homeless cims.
- They seem stuck in there.
- Some parks seem to be more prone to have the issue than others (bigger parks, but there are differences in between the big parks too)
- The homeless cims are not reflected in the stats - In my current save I see officially cca. 15 homeless cims, but in one park alone I can click on hundreds.
- Sometimes, out of the blue, a huge wave of homeless leave the map
- To have the public transportation at 0 price in all lines, helps with this huge wave
- The issue always come back

Ive never had them leave, and all my transport options are set to zero apart from taxis.
Even using dev mode and turning off homeless, and then deleting them, they stay around.
I guess it because they arent being counted in the stats, so the game doesnt know they are homeless, despite the info for the person saying they are.
Ive also found i have masses of half full houses, and an apparently ridiculous number of unemployed even with masses of job vacancies.
Theres clearly a glitch somewhere - but as there last patch appears to have stopped so many people even loading the game, they are probably thinking about addressing that issue, possibly, before they think about any other issues.

 

[Satrustegui]

I do not know if the 0 fare triggers the migration, the only thing I know for sure is that it helps with it. Without it, it takes very long for the homeless to leave (because they walk all the way outside the map). I am not sure what triggers the migration, I suspect it is loading a save game, but I am not certain on this.

I do not get the half empty houses, except right after a massive homeless migration. Then it stabilizes until the next migration. I have to say, I have very low demand on homes, tho. The city keeps growing, but it is a very slow process.

I do not see the high unemployment, but I had that in the past. It reduced a lot after I started to build more high density affordable homes. It used to be cca 16% now it lingers around 6%.

Not sure if related, but I also see tourists getting stuck. I just noticed today a couple of tourist: one stuck in a metro station, the other stuck in a shop. Next to the first, also a homeless cim stuck. Wondering if this has anything to do with homeless stuck in parks.

Also, why Paradox does not say anything on this tread baffles me.

 

[Satrustegui]

I kept digging.

So I tracked a bunch of tourist to see what's up with them.
In the first pic, you see a couple that came in a bus from outside the map, but they were never marked as tourist (in fact, I've never seen that) but they were not living anywhere so I assumed they were tourist. They visited places, including the shop right here in the first pic. Overtime, they got the "homeless" icon, they got a job, even they got divorced. One of them even remarried. But they are still stuck. Carl is stuck in this shop. You can see that in the second pic and third pic. The other sim, Viola, is stuck in the medieval castle.

I cannot confirm this is how all homeless get stuck, but these did. It also seems they get stuck in other places.

I added the save game for Paradox to have a look.

 

[Andyh12]

I kept digging.

So I tracked a bunch of tourist to see what's up with them.
In the first pic, you see a couple that came in a bus from outside the map, but they were never marked as tourist (in fact, I've never seen that) but they were not living anywhere so I assumed they were tourist. They visited places, including the shop right here in the first pic. Overtime, they got the "homeless" icon, they got a job, even they got divorced. One of them even remarried. But they are still stuck. Carl is stuck in this shop. You can see that in the second pic and third pic. The other sim, Viola, is stuck in the medieval castle.

I cannot confirm this is how all homeless get stuck, but these did. It also seems they get stuck in other places.

I added the save game for Paradox to have a look.

Intresting....
I before i noticed the homeless issue, i thought there was a glitch with the parks.
To start with i suddenly found thousands of people heading to the cemetery to "spend free time"
This got so bad I had to rearrange my public transport around it as the traffic and crowds were insane!
I didn't follow anyone, i just left it a while to play out. Tbh, i kinda just got used to the crowds, so didn't notice when they became homeless rather than people spending there free time at parks etc.

I can have over 20k people waiting at stations on outside connections, with no housing built, I wonder if they are coming as tourists and staying as homeless?
Saying that, my stats say i have no tourists, or income from tourists, so

 

[Satrustegui]

Intresting....
I before i noticed the homeless issue, i thought there was a glitch with the parks.
To start with i suddenly found thousands of people heading to the cemetery to "spend free time"
This got so bad I had to rearrange my public transport around it as the traffic and crowds were insane!
I didn't follow anyone, i just left it a while to play out. Tbh, i kinda just got used to the crowds, so didn't notice when they became homeless rather than people spending there free time at parks etc.

I can have over 20k people waiting at stations on outside connections, with no housing built, I wonder if they are coming as tourists and staying as homeless?
Saying that, my stats say i have no tourists, or income from tourists, so

I am not 100% sure they are tourist. They might be people moving in that for whatever reason they could not move to the home they expected to move in (eg. you demolish the building they were supposed to move in). However, the couple and single cim I followed, were tourists I believe (but I could be wrong, because I did not zone new areas, they could have been moving to a vacant flat). What I am 100% sure is that they came from outside the map.

Nevertheless, the effect is the same: people stuck in different places being idle, free time, whatever, without an actual home. I've seen them in my save game even in underground stations, or visiting anything remotely interesting. Building more housing does not help, because the demand from outside seems to be faster than the internal demand from these cims (if they are looking for a home to begin with, they seem to have a job, so my bet is that they should). High density affordable housing seems to help to a degree but no completely (also, because high demand from outside fills the flats pretty fast). I tested removing outside connections temporarily and building high density affordable housing, and the situation improves a bit. This is, by no means, a fix but rather a workaround. The other alternative is to wait for the big wave of homeless leaving to happen (not sure what triggers it).

And about the stats, maybe tourist stats are broken too. Because the majority of these homeless cims do not show as homeless.

 

[Andyh12]

Well, Arkion the Great has just posted a new thread about the same issue.
Ive just commented on his thread and asked if he could comment and vote on this thread to push it up the ladder....

 

[Arkion the Great]

Hiya, just saw your comment on mine.

I have done some number crunching:

City pop 260000-280000
Total no of jobs: 160000
Employed cims: 117000
Employees: 155000

and I have 10% + unemployment. I have left the game on overnight, even though there are no new residential buildings the pop jumped around 50k more, making the unemployment and performance worse. I also tried deleting them with the bulldoze tool to no avail they just stay as ghosts... I think I have around 100k homeless either in ghost state or in the parks or basically anywhere because I have tried deleting the parks out of 280k population...

 

[Satrustegui]

That's great, plenty of evidence that the problem exist. Upload your save game if possible.

Me, on the other hand, I found out how to accelerate the numbers.

- Ensure you have plenty of outside connections
- Build low rent high density residential until the demands drop
- Wait until the cims start moving
- Demolish the buildings in the recently made zone
- Wait until the demand is high again
- Repeat

It's like the cims do not know what to do with their lives, so they just decide to move to metro stations, big parks, or even stores.

I am trying to figure out the trigger for the big migration waves, so far unsuccessfully (in fact, I discover this acceleration method thanks to my workaround tests). If I manage to find the steps for a workaround, I could keep building.

Something that also helps is to bulldoze and (optionally) rebuild big parks and monuments, as cims have a tendency to get stuck in them.

Paradox, congrats in all the free QEs you get. At least give us a voucher for something.

 

[Arkion the Great]

I have tried a lot of solutions but rather than big parks they appear in smaller ones for me. I don’t know the reason why.

I uploaded the save too for them to see.

I don’t want a voucher or anything I just want the problem to be solved. I don’t think we should be demanding that kind of stuff from colossal order, I would rather have them fix the reported bugs. I enjoy the game a lot otherwise. I don’t think we should be negative either, there is no way I would return to CS1 from this game.

I am rather pissed off about this summer vacation thing though. That might be your country’s local rules and regulations but if one does business internationally, then one also should hire replacement staff to cover for that period because the world keeps going. Telling us ‘oh yeah summer vacation see you in 2 months’ is extremely irresponsible.

 

[Andyh12]

pdx_Mimonsi has replied to two threads regarding this issue asking for more info - you guys have clearly done more research about this than me - i stopped playing! So if you could reply to some of his questions and point to this post (I have mentioned them in a response) then maybe they can start linking the posts and issues together

 

[Radolfo_S]

Information​

When reporting a crash, stability or performance problems, please use the Report a Crash button on the earlier screen​

[CLICK] I understand

Required​

Summary​

Homeless all over the park

Steps to reproduce​

Update the game from 1.2.5f1 to 1.3.3f1 and use the same game save

Expected Result​

A reasonable number of Homeless people can be observed in the park

Actual Result​

The park was flooded with homeless people

Game Version​

1.3.3f1

What mods do you have installed?​

-[all region pack]
-All Aboard! (Faster Boarding Mod)
-Achievement Enabler

Affected Feature​

• Balance

Platform​

• Steam

Additional Information​

Save Game​

View attachment 1329931

Other Attachments​

View attachment 1329932View attachment 1329933View attachment 1329934

Hello,

I tried to play your savegame and analyzed your City. As far I can see, the Problem with homeless people is related to many big problems in your City Design.

I realized the following chain of problems:

1. No demand for residential and commercial zones - Cause: Massive Death wave from massive garbage accumulation in residential zones and poor water systems with not sufficiant cleaning and working capacity. This leads to constant spreading deseases in your city.
If you build the industrial waste facility and some garbage power plants you will see that all trucks will collect immediately incredible amounts of waste.
2. In addition to this the local healthcare system needs massive improvements. You need 5-6 hospitals and at least 20!!! more crematorials
3. Collapse of traffic systems by truck traffic jams. The massive traffic jams in your city prevent your helth care system and garbage collecting to work efficient. Your train system has collapsed, to and you have no outline connections on train tracks and the International arport that are for free.

After all, you need a massive reworking of that city to remove all dead people and all the garbage in the residential zones to get the demand back for residential zones. Then the homless people problem will gradually get better.

Good luck and have fun

 

[S0mEPeoPLe]

Hello,

I tried to play your savegame and analyzed your City. As far I can see, the Problem with homeless people is related to many big problems in your City Design.

I realized the following chain of problems:

1. No demand for residential and commercial zones - Cause: Massive Death wave from massive garbage accumulation in residential zones and poor water systems with not sufficiant cleaning and working capacity. This leads to constant spreading deseases in your city.
If you build the industrial waste facility and some garbage power plants you will see that all trucks will collect immediately incredible amounts of waste.
2. In addition to this the local healthcare system needs massive improvements. You need 5-6 hospitals and at least 20!!! more crematorials
3. Collapse of traffic systems by truck traffic jams. The massive traffic jams in your city prevent your helth care system and garbage collecting to work efficient. Your train system has collapsed, to and you have no outline connections on train tracks and the International arport that are for free.

After all, you need a massive reworking of that city to remove all dead peoa ple and all the garbage in the residential zones to get the demand back for residential zones. Then the homless people problem will gradually get better.

Good luck and have fun

I see, few days ago i had discovered that the garbage collection is down for unknown reason ( processing speed is 0 ), which causes a massive chain effect to other public service. i have rebuilt the recycling center to see is there any improvement. Thx for your investigation and I have to leave the game run for some time.

 

[Arkion the Great]

Hello,

I tried to play your savegame and analyzed your City. As far I can see, the Problem with homeless people is related to many big problems in your City Design.

I realized the following chain of problems:

1. No demand for residential and commercial zones - Cause: Massive Death wave from massive garbage accumulation in residential zones and poor water systems with not sufficiant cleaning and working capacity. This leads to constant spreading deseases in your city.
If you build the industrial waste facility and some garbage power plants you will see that all trucks will collect immediately incredible amounts of waste.
2. In addition to this the local healthcare system needs massive improvements. You need 5-6 hospitals and at least 20!!! more crematorials
3. Collapse of traffic systems by truck traffic jams. The massive traffic jams in your city prevent your helth care system and garbage collecting to work efficient. Your train system has collapsed, to and you have no outline connections on train tracks and the International arport that are for free.

After all, you need a massive reworking of that city to remove all dead people and all the garbage in the residential zones to get the demand back for residential zones. Then the homless people problem will gradually get better.

Good luck and have fun

Thank you for your comments and for checking the save:

I am sorry but your points are irrelevant to the issue. I understand that the healthcare and garbage facilities might be failing in his city but that’s a reason for massive deathwaves and rather would cause those people in the parks to die / get sick NOT to accumulate. There is no good reason for the simulation to generate that many homeless In a small park. I and many others are having the same problem in our games and I can assure you that my city has no problems with services.

On the point of not having outside connections / limiting them. That’s the only way to reduce the number of people accumulating in the parks due to this simulation bug.

Also your point isn’t addressing anything about these homeless people having jobs and not being counted as homeless, please don’t disregard a major bug as a player error.

Also if you wish; you could see mine here:

Endless Homeless appearing in parks

Information When reporting a crash, stability or performance problems, please use the Report a Crash button on the earlier screen [CLICK] I understand Required Summary Endless Homeless appearing in parks Steps to reproduce I am not sure how to...

forum.paradoxplaza.com

If you don’t wanna go through installing all the mods, the only mods you need to run it is plop the growables (otherwise the buildings will get abandoned) and tigon’s rail assets (we are yet to receive an elevated railway station) along with official asset packs. I have no traffic or service issues but the bug is there. I would recommend checking the no of homeless- total population- available jobs- employed numbers. That by itself explains that there is a major discrepancy.

Thank you.

Edit: I would love to be proven wrong that this is not a bug, as it would fix my city.

 

[Andyh12]

I have the same issues, and didn't have any issues with garbage or death.
It became an issue when i removed all aboard as the trams and busses just clog the roads - but otherwise, my city runs smoothly (its not a good looking city because i spammed stuff to try and get the homeless to find a home and the unemployed to find work)
Even still, it doesnt explain why the homeless are not counted in the stats - i have a zero homeless count yet thousands of homeless cims.
Also my city can have tens of thousands people heading to certain parks or cemeteries, and causes traffic chaos in themselves. I know parks are popular, but not that popular!
I deleted all the traffic and people and the homeless just became location finders in the park - almost like they lived there!

 

[Satrustegui]

Blaming trash is not a good thing to do, it disregards the problem others are facing. Several people do not have the trash problem (recycle centers are broken too: workaround, use the japanese recycle centers).

My save game has no problem whatsoever with trash, and yet I have many homeless cims stuck in different places of the city.

 

[Satrustegui]

Forgot to add the link to the other thread where this is being discussed:

Thousands of homeless - not registering on stats

Information When reporting a crash, stability or performance problems, please use the Report a Crash button on the earlier screen [CLICK] I understand Required Summary Thousands of homeless - not registering on stats Steps to reproduce load my...

forum.paradoxplaza.com