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How exactly does Dutch nationalism work?

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unmerged(2355)

unmerged(2355)

Second Lieutenant
Mar 27, 2001
120
0
I posted this before but it didn't work so I'll just sum it up:

1) Does the initial revolt risk of +31 ever decline? If so when and how fast?
2) What conditions must be satisfied for the Netherlands to form?
3) If you allow the Netherlands to form, then re-annex them, is Dutch nationalism dead forever? (apart from the usual +3 of course)
 
I can definitely say that immediate re-annexing does not make it go away. They're all straight back to 40%+ revolt risk and the whole dreadful cycle starts again. I got so fed up with it I gave up - so I'd also be interested to know if it ever goes away after, say, 30 years or something.

I'm currently playing England in about 1730, France has had Flanders for at least 60 years, so it makes me think that it must go away some time.

I've had various Mediterranean Islands for 70 years, and the've stayed at a constant 2% nationalism - as long as I garrison them heavily enough I generally retain control despite the regular and irritating revolts; obviously not the same scale of problem as the Netherlands is for Spain, but an indication that the game design probably does not allow for gradual assimilation. I'd like to remind the game designers that Malta and Gibraltar were eventually more British than Spanish or Italian.

I assume that I'm about to be hit with American nationalism, and whatever the game designers' view of history is on that one - so it would be nice to know if nationalism can ever be contained.
 
I just checked another post, and then my own game, and my reply above is wrong about the small (3%) nationalism - it does go away progressively over 30 years - I hadn't noticed because I've been progressively expanding in the Med and therefore always getting some revolts, but obviously not on the longer-standing possessions.

The question still remains about big Nationalism a la Netherlands.
 
A smart strategy (at least I think so) to use when playing Spain when dutch nationalsim arrives is to let them form their country (which they will when rebls control 4-5 provinces). When they form you are at war with them immediately. Conquer all provinces, but don't annex them. Instead demand all other provinces. That way the dutch nationalism is gone, and you haven't lost that much after all...


RL14
 
Another question

I've got a stupid question that sort of goes along with all this. Depeding on who control certain territories, does nationalism change at all? What I'm trying to say is if Dutch Nationalism occurs and Spain doesn't control some or all of the territories, will the revolts occur in all of the countries that own Dutch provinces? Same question for the Americas.
 
At least in regards to Dutch Nationalism, I it occurs regardless of what country holds the territories. I've seen this. Saxony held two of the dutch provences. All of the dutch provences were in revolt, Spanish and Saxon.

I (England), really wanted there to be a Netherlands, so, in panic, I patched out the Saxon possessions in the save file, so I can't say whether the Netherlands would have declared independence from both.
 
The Dutch revolt...

starts with a bang at the Counter-Reformation and stops again suddenly about thirty years later with the Edict of Tolerance. The Dutch breed like rabbits meanwhile, and the uprisings seem to double in ferocity towards the end as the population base grows (I think).

I got into stopping it to protect my investment in taxmen and judges in the provinces - luckily I didn't do any fortification. Investment, maybe 900, cost of war, around
20,000 plus complete paralysis for three decades while the Spanish treasury empties annually into Holland.

All that for a few dull rainy bits of real estate. I could have had the Americas for my playground instead.
 
A lot seems to depend on religion. As Spain, I waited until the population of the Dutch provinces dropped below 5,000. That didn't take very long because of all the sieges. I then sent a colonist. The provinces changed religion and didn't revolt anymore. Nationalism was still 3%, but that's easy to compensate with the tolerance slider. This tactic did not work with Flandres, of course. :)

Changing your state religion to reformed should have a similar effect, but causes other problems.
 
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