how to successfully vassalize/annex

[unmerged(760)]

it seems since patch 1.7c it´s not anymore necessary to have a common border with a country to vassalize/annex it. good. this increases the importance of peaceful annexion even more as you now could get footholds anywhere in europe.
but what effects if a vassalization/annexion-try succeeds?


vassalation:
1)royal marriage
2)military alliance
3)relation must be 190+
4)country must be smaller then you

annexion:
5)relation must be 190+
6)foreign country must be a vassal for 10 years
7)military alliance?
8)lenght of vassalation?
9)average relation over the vassal period?


both (only vague guesses):
10)own/foreign military strenght?
11)own/foreign stability?
12)badboy value?
13)your average relations?
14)foreign country is a neighbour?
15)higher chances at relation of 200?
16)betrayals in the past on the foreign country or her allies?
17)diplomatic situation of the foreign country?
18)core shields on territories of the foreign country?
19)size of the foreign country?
20)diploskill of your leader
21)leader skill(s) of foreign country?
22)foreign country´s economical situation?
23)foreign country´s military situation?

 

[JScott991]

I'd love to get an answer on this issue too. I've been at +200 relations with Hungary for 16 years and still can't peacefully annex them despite being roughly twice their size (and who knows how much bigger my economy and technological base is).

 

[unmerged(1122)]

You shouldn't forget to take into account your monarch's diplomatic skills. They have an impact.

 

[unmerged(1353)]

I think religion has an impact too. I've played Turkey a lot (because I like it, OK) and never been successful in annecting a Christian country (muslim countries goes much better).

 

[unmerged(548)]

Stability of the target definitly makes a difference, minors at +3 usually think they can manage as it it.

In the BG, different countries had different 'vas & annex ability' ie some where real pushovers (like many of the muslims) while some (like sweden) where extreemly hard and couldn't even become annexed.
Mayby (probably?) there is such a value hidden somewhere in the gamemechanics.

If anyone is interested in the BG values, you can download a table (.xls) with all the minors, in my EU BG section.
If your already downloading stuff, get the playeraide too and have a look at the tables decideing which factors affect vassalisation etc.

 

[unmerged(664)]

Good stuff here on monarch diplomatic skills and the target's stability. As France I had Baden in a military alliance and a royal marriage, plus +198 relations...and they turned me down cold, the bleeding little rat farts. Sorry. Maybe talk like that is why my kings are such horsepoop negotiators.

Kurt

 

[unmerged(538)]

Annex

They have to be your vassal for 10 years.

You have to be the same religion.

Vassal and Annexing is a good way to keep your badboy factor hidden. You can expand while not suffering from real annexation.

To me badboy hurts a lot. I annexed the Khazan, and Horde with Russia and everyone went insane.

Why should they care? They're rightfully my provinces anyway.

 

[unmerged(760)]

Originally posted by Huszics
Stability of the target definitly makes a difference, minors at +3 usually think they can manage as it it.

i had the same feeling, seems similar to the fact that gifts in times of war raise your relation far more.....

 

[Dearmad]

Weird God,

They do?? How so, you mean when they are in a war not neccessarily with me or what? Details please on this bribery an how it works!

 

[unmerged(1171)]

The biggest factor in successfully increasing relations through diplomacy (I've found) is your monarch's diplomatic skills. When i had a regent or a poor monarch (with diplomatic skills listed as Poor or Average), even state gifts only improved relations from +20 to +50. However, a monarch with good diplomatic skills can increase it by +150!!

Of course, this would probably only work with countries of the same religion as yours (I managed to change my relations with the Italian city-states from -200 all to between 0 and +50 as France, just with 1 state gift each).

I'm not sure if this is yet ANOTHER factor, but they were at war (with other countries) when I sent these gifts, so it might have helped me even further.

 

[unmerged(760)]

i´m not sure about the bribery thing, i read it somewhere and after paying attention to it i think it might be. if a country is at war it needs more money and is therefore more thankful for gifts, this is the thought behind it. however luck and diplo-skill seem to be bigger factors.

 

[Yasko]

'I'd love to get an answer on this issue too. I've been at +200 relations with Hungary for 16 years and still can't peacefully annex them despite being roughly twice their size (and who knows how much bigger my economy and technological base is)'

On my current game, i started as Turkey and annekted Memlukes(the turkish AI doesnt seem to be capable to do it), then i changed to Austria, somewhere in 1520s i annekted Bohemia, and later vassalised Hungary(my Austria is Austria+Bohemia, Hungary has its Original borders), after 10 years i annekted Hungary(happened sometime in the 1550s). Bayern and Moldovia are vassals, but the turks annekted moldovia, but try to annekt or vassalise Hungary after 1526......

 

[unmerged(760)]

i digged out this older thread because vassalation/annexion is one of the central parts of this game (and it costs damn much money to rebuild diplo-relation if it fails). any new info on this case is welcome.

 

[unmerged(548)]

And I moved it to the FAQ forum where it belongs =)

 

[Ursa Major]

While playing as the paupacy in italy, i managed to peacefully annex all of italy, and for me it seems that in addition to stability, both the economy and the diplomatic rating of the opposing country plays a role. But as others have suggested, the diplomatic skills of your current monarch seems to be one of the strongest deciding factor.

 

[unmerged(1260)]

If you try to annex a country peacefully and they reject and break your vassalization, do you have to re-vassalize, then wait ten years before you try again? That would, in common parlance, bite.

 

[Ursa Major]

yep.
From what i can recall, your relations with that country drops about 100 and you have to re-vassalize, wait the 10 years and try again. So you have to be pretty sure your attempt will be successfull before trying. (at least if you don't use restore. )

a good advice is doing it (both vassalisation and annexing) just after they started or ended a costly war or while suffering from some really poor monarch.
Try checking their diplomatic standing with other countries. if they have a lot of -200 and few over 50-100 that could be an indication that it is time to annex or vassalize.