HRE saver

[unmerged(10630)]

Part 1.


event = {
id = A
random = yes
country = LOR
trigger = {
OR = {
owned = { province = 345 data = -1 }
}
}
name = "You broke the emperial peace!"
desc = "The emperial jugde council is examinating our event and on the way to punish our ruler with an emperial ban what do we want to do?"
style = 2

date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1495 }
offset = 7250
deathdate = { day = 31 month = december year = 1618 }

action_a ={ name = "Try to appease emperial rage"

command = { type = stability value = -2 }

command = { type = independence which = PFA }

}

action_b ={ name = "This land is ours, let's keep it"

command = { type = stability value = -4 }

command = { type = ADM which = -3 value = 60 }

command = { type = DIP which = -3 value = 60 }

command = { type = revoltrisk which = 60 value = 5 }


}
}

event = {
id = A
random = yes
country = BAD
trigger = {
owned = { province = 343 data = -1 }
}
name = "You broke the emperial peace!"
desc = "The emperial jugde council is examinating our event and on the way to punish our ruler with an emperial ban what do we want to do?"
style = 2

date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1495 }
offset = 7250
deathdate = { day = 31 month = december year = 1618 }

action_a ={ name = "Try to appease emperial rage"

command = { type = stability value = -2 }

command = { type = independence which = MAI }

}

action_b ={ name = "This land is ours, let's keep it"

command = { type = stability value = -4 }

command = { type = ADM which = -3 value = 60 }

command = { type = DIP which = -3 value = 60 }

command = { type = revoltrisk which = 60 value = 5 }

}
}

event = {
id = A
random = yes
country = BAD
trigger = {
owned = { province = 347 data = -1 }
}
name = "You broke the emperial peace!"
desc = "The emperial jugde council is examinating our event and on the way to punish our ruler with an emperial ban what do we want to do?"
style = 2

date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1495 }
offset = 7250
deathdate = { day = 31 month = december year = 1618 }

action_a ={ name = "Try to appease emperial rage"

command = { type = stability value = -2 }

command = { type = independence which = WUR }

}

action_b ={ name = "This land is ours, let's keep it"

command = { type = stability value = -4 }

command = { type = ADM which = -3 value = 60 }

command = { type = DIP which = -3 value = 60 }

command = { type = revoltrisk which = 60 value = 5 }


}
}

event = {
id = A
random = yes
country = BAD
trigger = {
owned = { province = 372 data = -1 }
}
name = "You broke the emperial peace!"
desc = "The emperial jugde council is examinating our event and on the way to punish our ruler with an emperial ban what do we want to do?"
style = 2

date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1495 }
offset = 7250
deathdate = { day = 31 month = december year = 1618 }

action_a ={ name = "Try to appease emperial rage"

command = { type = stability value = -2 }

command = { type = independence which = THU }

}

action_b ={ name = "This land is ours, let's keep it"

command = { type = stability value = -4 }

command = { type = ADM which = -3 value = 60 }

command = { type = DIP which = -3 value = 60 }

command = { type = revoltrisk which = 60 value = 5 }


}
}

event = {
id = A
random = yes
country = THU
trigger = {
owned = { province = 373 data = -1 }
}
name = "You broke the emperial peace!"
desc = "The emperial jugde council is examinating our event and on the way to punish our ruler with an emperial ban what do we want to do?"
style = 2

date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1495 }
offset = 7250
deathdate = { day = 31 month = december year = 1618 }

action_a ={ name = "Try to appease emperial rage"

command = { type = stability value = -2 }

command = { type = independence which = BAD }

}

action_b ={ name = "This land is ours, let's keep it"

command = { type = stability value = -4 }

command = { type = ADM which = -3 value = 60 }

command = { type = DIP which = -3 value = 60 }

command = { type = revoltrisk which = 60 value = 5 }


}
}

 

[Sute]{h]

I for one don't like this... but we've discussed that in the AGC & EEP Germany thread. Far to deterministic and it punishes people for being successful. There is no way to turn a conquest into even a minor success.

 

[unmerged(10630)]

There is a way, choice B will be 5 years long after 5 years effects disappear. The events affects mostly the ai in a deterministic way, but still give the chance to change history for a human player even with a 5 years long penalty

 

[Sute]{h]

A five year long period which only matters in Germany. Why? When the rest of the world only has standard nationalism? This simply seems to me as a way to up nationalism in Germany which is unrealistic. Does a german peasant really care which german prince he answers to?

 

[unmerged(10630)]

Not a peasent but nobles will use cesar punishment or ban to make troubles and gain power.

EDIT: and previous rulers will press to raise nobles against new rulers.

 

[Sute]{h]

But wouldn't this be the case in all provinces not only the German ones? A 5% revoltrisk is quite major, and should be reserved for major rebellious periods. Also revoltrisk doesn't only affect the conquered province. It affects the entire country, and this is hardly justifiable.

 

[unmerged(10630)]

HRE had the addition to have emperial law granting endured peace to all the countries and a judge coucil and a cesar watching for this. There has been legal tools to punish who breaks the peace. And political pressing from both cesar and other prince to keep peace. A little different to foreign countries situation. As nobles of every country watched to council and cesar decisions to make theire politic.
This is the main reason of this event. Dates are fitted to show this, starting with enduring peace law in 1495 and ending with 30 years war.
Events have a historical basis.
About general revoltrisk: was made to make it easier for the conquered province to revolt. With only a revolt in the province th country will easily kill rebells and go on as nothing happened. The reason of having a national revoltrisk is that with a emperial ban rulers are formally not more legally chiefs of this country and every noble can legally raise against them.

 

[unmerged(6159)]

I think there is adequate historical justification for this, the Empire did show itself capacble of uniting against outside pressure and internal agressors on occasion. It's a question of whether we want this or not.

Barabalele: I'm very worried that you are reinventing the wheel. This is in the AGC, and we had a lengthy discussion about it a long time ago. dharper had the initial idea, Guinessmonkey put most of it together. I might do a search to find the link.

Anyway, in the AGC the way it works is:

[color=skyblue]
event = {
	id = 20651
	random = yes
	trigger = {
		event = 100007 # Option: RandomEvents
		owned = { province = 374 data = -1 }
		OR = {
			religion = catholic
			religion = counterreform
			religion = protestant
			religion = reformed
		}
		NOT = { 
			event = 21240 
			owned = { province = 374 data = FRA }
			owned = { province = 374 data = LOR }
			owned = { province = 374 data = HAB }
			owned = { province = 374 data = BUR }
			exists = STR

		}

	}

	name = "German rulers demand former rights"
	desc = "The peoples of this land have been long accustomed to local rule 
and are now demanding that we withdraw. It will be difficult to rule if we do not 
give in to their demands.  What shall we do?"
	style = 0
	action_a = {
		name = "Back down before Imperial pressure"
		command = { type = independence which = STR }
		command = { type = stability value = -1 }  
		command = { type = DIP   which = 3 value = 24 } 		 
	}
	action_b = {
		name = "Release them as your vassals"
		command = { type = independence which = STR }
		command = { type = DIP   which = -3 value = 24 } 
	}
	action_c = {
		name = "These lands are mine now"
		command = { type = revolt which = 374 }
		command = { type = revolt which = 374 }
		command = { type = revolt which = 374 }
		command = { type = stability value = 1 } 
	}
}
[/color]

The way it was done can now be improved because we have the "province" line available, and because every country now gets random events.
edit: Here is the link.

 

[Norrefeldt]

Originally posted by Isaac Brock
Anyway, in the AGC the way it works is:

Like it, rather simple in construction.
Edit: I think stab in a and c should be switched, to help out an annexing AI.

 

[unmerged(10630)]

Is Agc event working better in your opinion?

 

[unmerged(6159)]

Never managed to try it. Anyone else?

 

[Stonewall]

Isaac: I really like that event. It allows the player to keep provinces he conquered, but imposes some historical limitations and diplomatic problems as well. I'm wondering that since this is apparently going to be a random event linked by province number, will the fact that is random make it occur too infrequently to be useful? Or on the opposite side, will it occur too frequently to make it realistic?

 

[Sute]{h]

I would suggest the following modification to the event options:

A: Gives independence to the province. -1 BB point. +10 relations to other HRE countries. +1 stability.

B: -1 stability. Revolt in the province (perhaps more, but is it warrented). -25 relations to other HRE countries.

No need for three options in my opion.

And again I would like to say, that this is IMHO to force a historical behavior on the AI not the player. The player must simply feel that his actions has consequenses not be beaten into submission by deterministic events.

 

[unmerged(6159)]

Originally posted by Stonewall
Isaac: I really like that event. It allows the player to keep provinces he conquered, but imposes some historical limitations and diplomatic problems as well. I'm wondering that since this is apparently going to be a random event linked by province number, will the fact that is random make it occur too infrequently to be useful? Or on the opposite side, will it occur too frequently to make it realistic?

Anyone have enough experience with the AGC to know?

Sute]{h, I'm not sure why there are three options, and basically agree with you. However, you have the BB backwards in my opinion - You already lose one BB by releasing the vassal, I think you should get an extra BB point for defying the Empire. This is clear case where the judicial function of the Empire can come into play and you really are defying the states and laws of the empire, so I think it makes sense.

Check the old thread for a lot of discussion of this.

I personally think this might be a good thing to have as an option. But I'd really like to hear from people who have used it with the AGC.

 

[Garbon]

I think that there are three option to make it likely, in the unlikelihood that it fires, that the AI country will release the nation.

 

[Sute]{h]

Simply including more options to increase the AI chance of selecting option A is IMHO not good.

As to BB-points my idea was to give a player something in return for giving up the province. Otherwise a player will always go with option A. Further more it was to prevent a BB build up in an AI nation that keeps annexing its neighbours. Otherwise we'll end up with a HRE that constantly fights itself. Also the end result will still be a 3 BB-point increase. First you gain 5 BB-points by the annexation, then you lose 1 for releasing the vassal and 1 for the event.

 

[Garbon]

Originally posted by Sute]{h
Simply including more options to increase the AI chance of selecting option A is IMHO not good.

And why is that? This isn't there first place where its been done.

 

[unmerged(10630)]

About BB this is a good point. I'll let BB minus, but some more instead 1, maybe -3?

 

[Garbon]

Originally posted by Sute]{h
As to BB-points my idea was to give a player something in return for giving up the province. Otherwise a player will always go with option A. Further more it was to prevent a BB build up in an AI nation that keeps annexing its neighbours. Otherwise we'll end up with a HRE that constantly fights itself. Also the end result will still be a 3 BB-point increase. First you gain 5 BB-points by the annexation, then you lose 1 for releasing the vassal and 1 for the event.

Wouldn't the said country deserve that BB increase though? Under Isaac's proposal, you'd be encouraged to release the state in order to avoid getting extra BB. Both methods make sense and its just up to which one works better.

 

[Sute]{h]

I simply prefers the BB decrease since you never actually annex the country. You simply force-vassalize them which normally doesn't give BB-point. But a decrease of more than one could lead to exploitation. Since diploannexation doesn't give 5 BB-points.