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Kane_hun

Dreamy Mistknight of Tomorrow
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Nov 29, 2016
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Greetings,
Today I would like to present my suggestion about Hungarian missions.
Listening to music while reading a suggestion is a very nice custom, so I suggest this one if you are interested:
I would like to thank @Parmelion for his assistance. Lets start with the image:
suggestion.png
I decided to leave the already present missions intact, however, I would like to point out that the very first mission, Old Alliances, might need some rework, since allying Poland might prove difficult if you dont want to rival them (they often brake a day1 royal marriage and keep their alliance with some German nation). Regardless, lets continue with the additions:

1. Liberate Asia Minor
I think following conquest of Bulgaria a logical follow-up would be to liberate Asia Minor from the Ottomans.
For this I propose the following:
Req.: own 10 cities in Anatolia
Reward: Harsh treatment cost -20%, Religious conversion cost -20% for 25 years.

2. For this mission tree the theme comes from the Hungarian king Andrew II. who was the king of Jerusalem (at least he proclaimed it, since he was the descendant of Baldwin II of Jerusalem).
The first mission:
Control the Adriatic coast.
Dalmatia was lost under Sigismund not long before the game's start. I think perhaps the Acquire Subjects mission could give a perma claim on Dalmatia to represent this.
Req.: Own Dalmatia, Lika and 3 other port provinces in the Mediterranian.
Reward: Permament claim on Cyprus.

Secod mission:
Stepping stone
During his unsuccesful crusade, Andrew travelled through Cyprus on his way to the Holy Land. He also joined the Knights Hospitaller as a donatus.
Req.: Own or have a subject own Rhodes and Cyprus
Reward: Permament claims on Jaffa, Ghaza and Jerusalem.

Third mission:
Reclaim the Holy land
Req.:Own Jaffa, Ghaza and Jerusalem and convert them to catholic.
Reward.:Missionary strength +4%, Religious conversion cost -30% for 20 years.

Fourth mission:
The king of Jerusalem
I think releasing the kingdom should be encouraged but this might be optional.
Req.:Have Jerusalem as a non-tributary subject and have them own all their cores. (They get cores on more than the 3 required provinces when you release them)
Reward: 20 Papal Influence, EDIT: +100 splendor, +1 diplo relations slot until the end of the game (like the one Novgorod has for Finland)

Onto the next mission tree: After the Build buildings mission, I tried to represent the Paulines in the mission tree in some way, until the non-iberian religious orders get a better representation in the game.
Fifth mission:
Fund monasteries
(Something like the Tibetian mission tree has. )
Req.: Have the clergy loyalty above 60% and 60% influence. All provinces in the Carpathia region + Croatia, Bosnia and Serbia areas are Catholic.
Reward: Get the modifier supported Paulines: +0.5 yearly Papal influence + 0.5 Tolerance of the true faith for 50 years.

Sixth mission
Bibliotheca Corviniana
Bibliotheca Corviniana was the famous library of Mathias Corvin. It included over 2500 codexes and was one of the most renowned libraries.
Req.: Have the Pest province at least 30 development AND have 3 stability and 70 prestige.
Reward: Pest province gets the modifier until the end of the game (or until heathens own it) -5% adm tech cost.

Finally the third mission tree focuses on the schemes of Mathias and the the Bohemian elector crown. He wanted to acquire an elector title but only managed to conquer parts of Moravia. Later he managed to capture Vienna and some Austrian border territory as well. Since conquering parts of the HRE can prove quite a diffucult task I decided to make a separate tree for these.
Seventh Mission (replace Defender of the Faith, since the Mathias was invited by the Catholics in Bohemia)
Control Moravia
Req. Own or have a subject own Brno and Olomouc and Ratibor. (The event which is tied to this should give permaclaims on these provinces and a few more in Silesia)
Reward: Restoration of union CB on Bohemia.

Eight mission
The Bohemian crown
Req.: Have Bohemia in a PU OR own the areaas of Bohemia, Silesia and Erzebirge.
Reward: Agressive exp. impact -5%, Improve relations +15% for 15 years.

Ninth mission
(A logical follow-up from the electorship is the emperorship since his ambition for the electorship could have been from the ambition to drive the Ottomans out of the Balkans, but he needed a much wider coalition than Hungary solely.)
The HRE
Req.: Become the Holy Roman Emperor.
Reward:. +10% IA growth, +1 diplo reputation for 25 years.

10th mission
Mathias also conquered parts of Austria, which were lost after his death. To represent this I included this mission:
Conquer Vienna
Req.: Own Wien and Ostmark.
Reward.: Modifier Captured Wien: Morale of arnies +10% (Hungary doesnt have the standard mission which gives morale as a reward) and permament claims on the areas of Tirol, Carniola, Inner Austria and Linz (could be changed to regular claims for balance reasons)

Finally I added some missions for the later game:
11th mission
University of Nagyszombat
The Péter Pázmány, a jesuit cardinal contrbuted much to the foundation of the University of Nagyszombat and he contributed greatly towards the Counter-Reformation in Hungary.
Req.: Have a university in Pozsony and Pest provinces, have Pozsony and Pest at least 30 dev each.
Reward: Innovativness gain +50% and yearly papal influence +2 for 20 years.

12th mission
Improve the production
The most important goods in Hungary were Livestock and grain, so I propose a mission to improve the productions:
Req.: Have 15 Farm estate and 5 Furnaces
Reward.:Mercantilism +5%, Trade steering +15% until the end of the game.


If you have suggestions on how to improve these mission, please share your thoughts below.
 
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I think there should also be a mission for king of galicia and lodomeria, a title held by many hungarian kings
 
i think the holy land and similar being that early defeats the purpose of the mission tree, the reality for Hungary after Varna was: even a joint Polish/Hungarian/Wallachian/Serbian/Moldavian effort cant overcome the Ottomans

So the initiative was lost, but Hungary kept trying to fight the ottomans
Albania was an important part in this as well as Serbia, in 1448 just 4 years after the crushing defeat of Varna, Hunyadi marched against the turks again, only to be defeated again. His armies of Hungary and Wallachia planned to aid Skanderbeg and crush the Ottoman army, it failed at the battle of Kosovo (1448).
This development could be presented by allying Albania and ally/control Wallachia.

The important fort lines are not very well represented in the game, a very weak event should be replaced with a mission to fortify and control the borderlands. Something like own and core Dalmatia, Donji Kraji, Nándorfehérvár, Királyföld, Temesvár. Reward could be increased fort defense, to even out the absolutely overkill 33% ottoman siege ability given by age of discovery and reduced fort maintance cost.

Hunyadis son continued the fight against Ottomans as represented in the OP but the missions should focus on realities, Corvin aimed to to have the Bohemian crown AND become emperor, which outside of the HRE is pretty much impossible unless religious wars are already here. So my suggestion is to give a CB to PU Bohemia and ally Austria (instead of conquering Vienna), reward could be HRE electorate, i think this represents game mechanic wise the intentions of Corvin the most.
Moldavia usually comes under polish influence right at the start, putting claims on it only worsens the relation of Hungary and Poland, i suggest dropping this entirely.
The liberation (which to be fair was to be a change of overlord for the involved) of the balkans could follow as already in the game.

I havent seen it mentioned anywhere but Hungary was involved in Naples, through the Anjou king (Louis the Great ), much like René of Provence, it could mean another conquest/PU mission.

I was not very specific about rewards because i feel like the devs have a better understanding of whats reasonable and whats too much (well, apart from the Guns of Urban :p, gunsmith ironically someone from the kingdom of Hungary)
 
The important fort lines are not very well represented in the game, a very weak event should be replaced with a mission to fortify and control the borderlands. Something like own and core Dalmatia, Donji Kraji, Nándorfehérvár, Királyföld, Temesvár. Reward could be increased fort defense, to even out the absolutely overkill 33% ottoman siege ability given by age of discovery and reduced fort maintance cost.

Regarding the fort system, I previously made a suggestion about the Végvár system

So my suggestion is to give a CB to PU Bohemia and ally Austria (instead of conquering Vienna), reward could be HRE electorate, i think this represents game mechanic wise the intentions of Corvin the most.

I agree that a PU CB on Bohemia would be better than a conquest of Moravia. I put the conquest of Vienna paralell to the HRE one so you could in theory complete it by revoking, not just conquest. This way an
alliance with Austria can be safely held and the mission completed later or alternatively, if the Empire is protestant for example and its not worth becoming the Emperor, you could still complete the latter. It would be also interesting to see Hungary become an elector while outside the HRE, although I dont know whether the game mechanics allow it or not.

I havent seen it mentioned anywhere but Hungary was involved in Naples, through the Anjou king (Louis the Great ), much like René of Provence, it could mean another conquest/PU mission

Thats a great idea, I might implement it in a revised version if I get the time.

I think there should also be a mission for king of galicia and lodomeria, a title held by many hungarian kings

Moldavia usually comes under polish influence right at the start, putting claims on it only worsens the relation of Hungary and Poland, i suggest dropping this entirely.

Its hard to find a balance between these two, since one way you are expanding into Poland who might be a crucial ally against the Ottomans or they are completely ignored. Currently you can just restart until Moldavia becomes your March if you want, so that wont worsen your relations. If they choose independence, you can also still subjugate them using the claims. If the hostile route was chosen, a mission to conquer Red Ruthenia/Galicia could be added after the Moldavian one but this would definetely worsen the relations, since thats core Polish territory.
 
I would also like to point out when discussing missions, i consider the tag not just from player perspective, but from played by the AI. What we see now is everyone carving Hungary up like i juice pie, because it puts its damn permanent claims, everywhere, there wont be allies with that. (Its also an issue with the new mission system generally, so i strongly disgree with the devs on this, who seem to be happy about everybody putting their permanent claims on everything, my lastest fun moment: Protect Norway as Sweden: CLAIMS EVERYWHERE)
 
Its hard to find a balance between these two, since one way you are expanding into Poland who might be a crucial ally against the Ottomans or they are completely ignored. Currently you can just restart until Moldavia becomes your March if you want, so that wont worsen your relations. If they choose independence, you can also still subjugate them using the claims. If the hostile route was chosen, a mission to conquer Red Ruthenia/Galicia could be added after the Moldavian one but this would definetely worsen the relations, since thats core Polish territory.

If you have a "kingdom of Galicia Lodomeria" Mission after conquer Moldovia, it is quite likely relations are really bad. Anyway I think the resoning here is not that relevant. AI almost never achives any mission, and the player can choose how he plays. Also after poland patch it seems like hungary and poland are very rarely getting any alliance.
 
I havent seen it mentioned anywhere but Hungary was involved in Naples, through the Anjou king (Louis the Great ), much like René of Provence, it could mean another conquest/PU mission
I have thought about this, and in most games (or at least more often than not), Naples is never independent, but Spanish/Aragonese (I dont know how the GC patch will change it though). Mathias even had her second wife from Aragon and I suspect its partly because they also had the throne of Naples. A perma/normal claim fest on South Italy would just worsen relations, as you suggested (fighting Spain is not easy, especially for a nation with a weak navy like Hungary) a PU CB needs Naples to be independent. While it would be nice to represent this in some way, I dont have any really good ideas for it yet. Perhaps a Liberation CB followed by a PU event? Do you have any ideas?
 
I have thought about this, and in most games (or at least more often than not), Naples is never independent, but Spanish/Aragonese (I dont know how the GC patch will change it though). Mathias even had her second wife from Aragon and I suspect its partly because they also had the throne of Naples. A perma/normal claim fest on South Italy would just worsen relations, as you suggested (fighting Spain is not easy, especially for a nation with a weak navy like Hungary) a PU CB needs Naples to be independent. While it would be nice to represent this in some way, I dont have any really good ideas for it yet. Perhaps a Liberation CB followed by a PU event? Do you have any ideas?

sometimes it gets independant, mission could be about PU if its independent or pretender rebels with your dynasty that can be used later as PU, marching into Naples is not an issue with all the conditional military accesses flying around
its just flavour, but i think better than slapping permanent claims on everything around you
 
Updated the mission tree
I tried to include your feedback regarding Galicia and Naples in this revised version. According to @neondt :
If you have ideas for new missions, feel free to post them on the suggestions subforum. I'm particularly interested in adding missions with cool effects or unusual (but fitting) triggers.

suggestionv2.png

Firstly, I moved the Liberate Asia Minor after the Conquer Thrace mission, as this feels more like a natural order. I added a few new missions compared to the previous version and I will try making somewhat unique triggers/effects:

1.
Rex Galiciæ et Lodomeriæ
(Coloman/Kálmán of Galicia was the son of the Hungarian King Andrew II. He participated in the Hungarian-Mongoloian battle of Mohi (1941), where he got injured and died later on.)
Maria Theresia of Austria used this passed along title of the Hungarian crown in justifing her participation in the First Partition of Poland, thus I propose a similar mission like the Austrian one.
Req.: Own or have a subject own Nowy Szacz, Tarnow and Red Ruthenia area.
Reward: Rex Galiciæ modifier for 20 years +1 diplo reputation, -5 agressive exp. impact, +10% improve relations, if Galicia/Volhynia exists and is a vassal of Hungary and has less than 10 provinces, inherit them (they start the game with 9 cores)

2.
The throne of Naples
Louis the Great seeked to secure the Neapolitan throne for his brother, Andrew, because the Neapolitan succession of the Anjous was disputed.
Req.Have a consort or ruler of the de Valois or d'Anjou dynasty. (A bit tricky, but Provence (and France) start with this dynasty)

Reward: (Follows the Control the Adriatic mission) If Naples is independent or is tributary: Gain Restoration of Union CB
If Naples is a subject (e.g. PU of Spain or Aragon), gain succession war CB (would be similar to the random succesion war event where you can constest a PU, the difference would be that this wouldnt be instant)
If Naples does not exist: Gain a Liberation CB on whoever own Naples. The CB would only allow the usual restricted monetary peace deals plus the release Naples peace option. If that is taken in the peace deal, an event puts Naples in a PU under Hungary.

3.
The Legacy of Louis the Great
Louis the Great also established signed an anti-Habsburg alliance between the Bohemian and the Polish king and him. He later inherited the Polish throne and unified Hungary and Poland in a PU.
Req.: Own or have a subject own the Napoli, Abruzzi and Salerno provinces, Apulia, Calabria, Erzgebirge, Bohemia areas and the Poland region.
Reward.: Upgrade to Empire rank (if not already) +3 States , -10% Cav. cost and +10% Cav ratio (to represent the Polish part of the empire; Hungary already got cav. combat ability) until the end of the game.


Of course these modifiers can be change if you suggest better ones! Feel free to share your thoughts. If you are interested in my other suggestions regarding Hungary, please check out the links in my signature.
 
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Recently @Me_ posted a great thread about Hansaetic missions and he proposed a really clever reward: triggered modifiers. So I have taken inspiration from it and I suggest that the Anatolian Threat or Conquer Thrace mission could give a triggered modifer for Hungary:

Defender of Christendom
If any province which is adjacent on land to the capital borders a heathen province (so colonies dont count for example) THEN Hungary gets Yearly army tradition decay -1%

I am debating which mission should give though: Anatolian threat feels like a more natural choice, although its a lot easier, while the other requires defeating the Ottomans and functions as a reward for your hard work. What do you think?
 
if you defeat the ottos you will be undoubtedly rewarded, in the current game i see no way for Hungary to pull that off without the player, so i think triggered modifiers will help more than unreachable rewards, currently Hungary is more of a rollover for ottomans instead of a roadblock that it was
 
It looks like the modifiers you're working with are way too big.

Third mission:
Reclaim the Holy land
Req.:Own Jaffa, Ghaza and Jerusalem and convert them to catholic.
Reward.:Missionary strength +4%, Religious conversion cost -30% for 20 years.

this one for instance. 4% is bonkers. 2% would fit nicely (compare it to russian missions for instances). Also -30% culture conversion stacks with your other sources (multiplicatively), so I'd reconsider, it's not like there was any attempt at CC either was it? Why not change it for +1-2 yearly papal influence?

Fourth mission:
The king of Jerusalem
I think releasing the kingdom should be encouraged but this might be optional.
Req.:Have Jerusalem as a non-tributary subject and have them own all their cores. (They get cores on more than the 3 required provinces when you release them)
Reward: 20 Papal Influence, 10 Prestige +1 diplo relations slot until the end of the game (like the one Novgorod has for Finland)

That would be awesome that the mission tree encourages the release of Jerusalem. Bear in mind it gives that country 25 prestige already so the 10 prestige are misplaced here. I like papal influence, but I think +1 diplo slot would be weird for a big major like Hungary, which can still form other nations… at least make it expire. Then, I don't see why Jerusalem ought to be a vassal? on the contrary, feeding them their cores as an ally would be neat imo.

12th mission
Improve the production
The most important goods in Hungary were Livestock and grain, so I propose a mission to improve the productions:
Req.: Have 15 Farm estate and 5 Furnaces
Reward.:Mercantilism +5%, Trade steering +15% until the end of the game.

That's just wayyy too much for a major + a non trade republic. +2 merc, 20 years of 15% trade steering look more appropriate.


edit: thanks for specifying, I was indeed confused what sort of religious conversion you were talking about, my mistake!
 
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Thank you for your feedback!
this one for instance. 4% is bonkers. 2% would fit nicely (compare it to russian missions for instances). Also -30% culture conversion stacks with your other sources (multiplicatively), so I'd reconsider, it's not like there was any attempt at CC either was it? Why not change it for +1-2 yearly papal influence?
While I agree that 4% missionary strength might be too much and 2% would be better, I would like to point out that I propsed religious conversion cost reduction, not culture conversion cost. With the changes how costly religious conversion in newly conquered (high autonomy) big cities is, I would say that this is a fitting benefit.

That would be awesome that the mission tree encourages the release of Jerusalem. Bear in mind it gives that country 25 prestige already so the 10 prestige are misplaced here. I like papal influence, but I think +1 diplo slot would be weird for a big major like Hungary, which can still form other nations… at least make it expire. Then, I don't see why Jerusalem ought to be a vassal? on the contrary, feeding them their cores as an ally would be neat imo.

The idea was to make Hungarian control of the Holy Land indirect and to encourage the use of vassals (or make Jerusalem a March). The prestige reward could be scrapped, but I support the permament diplo relation as an another major, Novgorod (if you beat Muscovy you are basically a major, which you have to do to survive) has a similar for Finland. If Jerusalem would stay independent, the AI might end up fighting Hungary.

That's just wayyy too much for a major + a non trade republic. +2 merc, 20 years of 15% trade steering look more appropriate.

Keep in mind that this mission can only be completed after you have 5 furnaces, so after 1700, since those require Enlightement. I also wanted to represent how the Hungarian livestock was sold on German markets, so perhaps this could be changed to caravan power or reduce the penalty for collecting not in your primary node. Since you are left around 100 years of gameplay at most, I think a permament modifier doesnt make it very overpowered (might even give you the incentive to play along). 5% mercantilism can be debated, but by this time, other nations will have high mercantilism as well, so I wouldnt say its too much overpowered. Perhaps 2 of these 4 (mercantilism, trade steering, caravan power, reduced penalty for collecting) could be chosen, but I support the idea of a permament modifier.
 
A thought: Hungary had a bit of traumatic experience with the Mongols, and parts of its population are refuges from said Mongols.
Wouldn't a strong Hungary start looking at Crimea and the Great Horde and think "payback time"?
 
A thought: Hungary had a bit of traumatic experience with the Mongols, and parts of its population are refuges from said Mongols.
Wouldn't a strong Hungary start looking at Crimea and the Great Horde and think "payback time"?


Right after the mongol invasion king IV. Béla rebuilt the country, with strong stonecastles, in place of the older wooden fortifications. For this he's called "the Rebuilder".
The mongols after the death of their Khan were pretty disintegrated and they never show up again at the region.
So I don't think Hungary needs quests towards Crimea. But if the actual player feel like, they can do it, so it would feel like a blobbing quest.
I love the original ones with Balkans, Moravia-Wien, Naples and Jerusalem, which were actual historical aims.