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In terram Salicam mulieres ne succedant

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Pan Zagloba

Pan Zagloba

Hetman Wielki
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Dec 3, 2000
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Here's a funny thing (which may be a funny EEP thing, in which case I'd be grateful if a moderator would do the decent thing).

I was having a successful game as England - taken all of France after a few bouts of the 100 years' war, diplo-annexed all the other duchies and bits and pieces that were lying around. Then 100 years of peace (more or less).

Suddenly, Mary I is on the throne and all the CB shields I hold as ruler of France, as well as French culture, disappear!

Why? The Salic law, a no-options event that does the dirty on me in this way.

This seems to be totally illogical. The 100-years war was fought to prove that the Salic law did NOT apply in France. Now that I've won that war, and won it handsomely over 100 years ago, I think we can say I've established the principle that the Salic law does not apply in France.

And then (in a veritable action-movie-villain-doesn't-die-until-you-shoot-him-the-second-time manner), it pops up and shafts my plans for low-BB European expansion.

I think I agree with Shakespeare:

"There is no bar
To make against your highness' claim to France
But this, which they produce from Pharamond,
'In terram Salicam mulieres ne succedant:'
'No woman shall succeed in Salique land:'
Which Salique land the French unjustly gloze
To be the realm of France, and Pharamond
The founder of this law and female bar.
Yet their own authors faithfully affirm
That the land Salique is in Germany,
Between the floods of Sala and of Elbe;
Where Charles the Great, having subdued the Saxons,
There left behind and settled certain French;
Who, holding in disdain the German women
For some dishonest manners of their life,
Establish'd then this law; to wit, no female
Should be inheritrix in Salique land:
Which Salique, as I said, 'twixt Elbe and Sala,
Is at this day in Germany call'd Meisen.
Then doth it well appear that Salique law
Was not devised for the realm of France."

Zagloba
 
It must be a funny EEP thing. There are no CB shields as England on France in the grand campaign.

alberta.gif
BarristerBoy
 
quote--------------------------------------------------
event = {
id = 20009
trigger = {
event = 20004 #England conquers France#
NOT = { event = 20007 } #France frees itself from England#
}
random = no
country = ENG
name = "Queen Mary and Salic Law"
desc = "Under Salic Law no woman could be monarch of France. Henri VI's will had been specific that after his son Eduard IV his daughters Mary and Elizabeth were next in line of succession for the thrones of both England and France. Even before Mary seized power in England there had been attempts in France to gather support for the restoration of a domestic king. It wasn't however Mary's coronation in Paris that she became aware of the level opposition in France"
style = 2
date = { day = 7 month = july year = 1553 }
offset = 30
deathdate = { day = 30 month = december year = 1553 }


action_a ={ #Ok#
name = "Curses"
command = { type = remove_countryculture which = french }
command = { type = stability value = -1 }
command = { type = revolt which = 385 }
command = { type = revolt which = 385 }
command = { type = removecore which = 375 } #all French CB provinces#
command = { type = removecore which = 376 }
command = { type = removecore which = 379 }
command = { type = removecore which = 382 }
command = { type = removecore which = 383 }
command = { type = removecore which = 384 }
command = { type = removecore which = 385 }
command = { type = removecore which = 386 }
command = { type = removecore which = 387 }
command = { type = removecore which = 406 }
command = { type = removecore which = 407 }
command = { type = removecore which = 408 }
command = { type = removecore which = 409 }
command = { type = removecore which = 410 }
command = { type = removecore which = 411 }
command = { type = removecore which = 412 }
command = { type = removecore which = 413 }
command = { type = removecore which = 414 }
command = { type = removecore which = 415 }
command = { type = removecore which = 416 }
command = { type = removecore which = 417 }
command = { type = removecore which = 418 }
command = { type = removecore which = 419 }
command = { type = removecore which = 420 }
command = { type = removecore which = 421 }
command = { type = removecore which = 422 }
command = { type = removecore which = 423 }
command = { type = removecore which = 424 }
command = { type = removecore which = 425 }
command = { type = removecore which = 426 }
command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 375 value = 4 }
command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 376 value = 4 }
command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 379 value = 4 }
command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 382 value = 4 }
command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 383 value = 4 }
command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 384 value = 4 }
command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 385 value = 4 }
command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 386 value = 4 }
command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 387 value = 4 }
command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 406 value = 4 }
command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 407 value = 4 }
command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 408 value = 4 }
command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 409 value = 4 }
command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 410 value = 4 }
command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 411 value = 4 }
command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 412 value = 4 }
command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 413 value = 4 }
command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 414 value = 4 }
command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 415 value = 4 }
command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 416 value = 4 }
command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 417 value = 4 }
command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 418 value = 4 }
command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 419 value = 4 }
command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 420 value = 4 }
command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 421 value = 4 }
command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 422 value = 4 }
command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 423 value = 4 }
command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 424 value = 4 }
command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 425 value = 4 }
command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 426 value = 4 }
}#add possibility of placing Henry Stuart on French throne#
}
end quote----------------------------

Heres an event that removes the CB shields England has on France, with the rise of Mary I.

and heres an event that gives the CB shields back.

quote---------------------------
random = no
country = ENG
name = "James I of France"
desc = "With a king again on the throne in England, English governance of France became easier."
style = 2
date = { day = 24 month = march year = 1603}
offset = 30
deathdate = { day = 27 month = march year = 1625}


action_a ={ #Ok#
name = "Great"
command = { type = add_countryculture which = french }
command = { type = stability value = 1 }
command = { type = addcore which = 375 } #all French CB provinces#
command = { type = addcore which = 376 }
command = { type = addcore which = 379 }
command = { type = addcore which = 382 }
command = { type = addcore which = 383 }
command = { type = addcore which = 384 }
command = { type = addcore which = 385 }
command = { type = addcore which = 386 }
command = { type = addcore which = 387 }
command = { type = addcore which = 406 }
command = { type = addcore which = 407 }
command = { type = addcore which = 408 }
command = { type = addcore which = 409 }
command = { type = addcore which = 410 }
command = { type = addcore which = 411 }
command = { type = addcore which = 412 }
command = { type = addcore which = 413 }
command = { type = addcore which = 414 }
command = { type = addcore which = 415 }
command = { type = addcore which = 416 }
command = { type = addcore which = 417 }
command = { type = addcore which = 418 }
command = { type = addcore which = 419 }
command = { type = addcore which = 420 }
command = { type = addcore which = 421 }
command = { type = addcore which = 422 }
command = { type = addcore which = 423 }
command = { type = addcore which = 424 }
command = { type = addcore which = 425 }
command = { type = addcore which = 426 }
command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 375 value = -4 }
command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 376 value = -4 }
command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 379 value = -4 }
command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 382 value = -4 }
command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 383 value = -4 }
command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 384 value = -4 }
command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 385 value = -4 }
command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 386 value = -4 }
command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 387 value = -4 }
command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 406 value = -4 }
command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 407 value = -4 }
command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 408 value = -4 }
command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 409 value = -4 }
command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 410 value = -4 }
command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 411 value = -4 }
command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 412 value = -4 }
command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 413 value = -4 }
command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 414 value = -4 }
command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 415 value = -4 }
command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 416 value = -4 }
command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 417 value = -4 }
command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 418 value = -4 }
command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 419 value = -4 }
command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 420 value = -4 }
command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 421 value = -4 }
command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 422 value = -4 }
command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 423 value = -4 }
command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 424 value = -4 }
command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 425 value = -4 }
command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 426 value = -4 }
}
end quote-------------------

hopes this explains your problem :)
 
"Under Salic Law no woman could be monarch of France. Henri VI's will had been specific that after his son Eduard IV his daughters Mary and Elizabeth were next in line of succession for the thrones of both England and France. Even before Mary seized power in England there had been attempts in France to gather support for the restoration of a domestic king. It wasn't however Mary's coronation in Paris that she became aware of the level opposition in France"

I know I'm nitpicking here, but wasn't it Henry VIII and wasn't his son Edward VI? Also, it was a proclamation that was made into an Act of Parliament, not a will. Even (as I'm assuming this is an event that occurs only if England wins the Hundred Years War) if it is meant to indicate French monarchs, Henry II was still ruling France when Henry VIII of England died, so the "VI" still doesn't seem right.

To go off on a really wild "what if" tangent, it's likely that under these hypothetical circumstances that for political reasons Mary would have been more likely to marry Henry II's dauphine Francis instead of Philip II. Then Philip might have married either Elizabeth or Mary Queen of Scots, which would have made for some interesting events indeed.
 
It wasn't entirely dead as it was used by Louis XIV as the legal basis for the chambers of reunion, and was a key factor in the ultimate sucess of Henry IV in the wars of religion. It led to the confilct over the Mantuan sucession in 1617.

There's been a lot of debate about the shields. I think they give England too easy a ride and should go.
 
Originally posted by Isaac Brock
It wasn't entirely dead as it was used by Louis XIV as the legal basis for the chambers of reunion, and was a key factor in the ultimate sucess of Henry IV in the wars of religion. It led to the confilct over the Mantuan sucession in 1617.

There's been a lot of debate about the shields. I think they give England too easy a ride and should go.
Click to expand...

True, IRL.

However, given that I've stomped all over the French in pursuit of the claim that it is dead...

But I don't want to become an obsessive about this. >twitch< >twitch<

Zagloba
 
You won the war so the law is crushed and that is why mary can not be queen of france! And that is why you loose the shields now when the crown is once again male(james I) you gain them back and the this all happen because you won the hundred years war!!. You have created the presedent that the crown cant be followed through the female. So when mary gains the throne so soon after the 100 years war she cant claim the french throne.
 
Originally posted by Belissarius
You won the war so the law is crushed and that is why mary can not be queen of france! And that is why you loose the shields now when the crown is once again male(james I) you gain them back and the this all happen because you won the hundred years war!!. You have created the presedent that the crown cant be followed through the female. So when mary gains the throne so soon after the 100 years war she cant claim the french throne.
Click to expand...

What? If England wins the HYW, then they have vindicated Edward III's original position which was that the line could pass through the female. Salic law, which was not recognized in Edward III's claim, or any of the English claimants thereafter, is null and void. Therefore, if England and France are united under a single crown, there is no application of the Salic law, either with Mary or with Elizabeth. So, if the CB shields are there when Mary takes the throne, there they should stay.

I do not think there should be any at all, however, except for on a few provinces for a specified period, but PZ is right that the events as they stand are wrong in doing this.
 
Originally posted by JG1Beck


What? If England wins the HYW, then they have vindicated Edward III's original position which was that the line could pass through the female. Salic law, which was not recognized in Edward III's claim, or any of the English claimants thereafter, is null and void. Therefore, if England and France are united under a single crown, there is no application of the Salic law, either with Mary or with Elizabeth. So, if the CB shields are there when Mary takes the throne, there they should stay.

I do not think there should be any at all, however, except for on a few provinces for a specified period, but PZ is right that the events as they stand are wrong in doing this.
Click to expand...

Thank you, JG1Beck. I couldn't have put it better myself.

Zagloba
 
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