Inverness Nation Name

[ComradeMaxist]

Should Inverness (The Nation) not be called Alba or possibly Caledonia. I say this because Inverness was never a nation, which I assume you know.

If you plan to stick to Inverness, I would be interested to hear the reasoning.

I know this is not a massive problem however, who doesn't love to nit pick.

 

[spinoza013]

It should be called the Gaidhealtachd or The Gaeldom

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gàidhealtachd

 

[ComradeMaxist]

It should be called the Gaidhealtachd or The Gaeldom

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gàidhealtachd

I see no problem with that.

 

[ghengilhar]

It should be called the Gaidhealtachd or The Gaeldom

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gàidhealtachd

I also think their flag should be altered. Their flag is the saltire, you know the flag of Scotland, a nation that does not have that flag.

 

[MacDuffin]

I also think their flag should be altered. Their flag is the saltire, you know the flag of Scotland, a nation that does not have that flag.

The flag (at least the saltire) was formed as a concept well within the time when Scotland was more Gael then "Scot" and if the actual nation of Scotland sticks with the Lion rampant I think the saltire is appropriate. Other things might be something like the thistle, celtic knot, stag, or maybe stretch a bit and use the Jacobite flag (Would be rather ahistorical for 1444 though)


In terms of the name, I agree that Inverness is a bit strange, especially when it includes Sutherland, Isles, & Aberdeen. I think even Moray is more appropriate or Mhoireibh if we're keeping it Gaelic.
I am loving the Goidelic love we got though, I suggested Inverness ideas (Although there's many other variations that could be used) and I want to suggest some Ulster/Tyrone ideas by tonight/tomorrow. Obviously its up to Paradox to decide what happens, but I think some tweaking & additions to the area would certainly add more flavour.

 

[ghengilhar]

The flag (at least the saltire) was formed as a concept well within the time when Scotland was more Gael then "Scot" and if the actual nation of Scotland sticks with the Lion rampant I think the saltire is appropriate. Other things might be something like the thistle, celtic knot, stag, or maybe stretch a bit and use the Jacobite flag (Would be rather ahistorical for 1444 though)


In terms of the name, I agree that Inverness is a bit strange, especially when it includes Sutherland, Isles, & Aberdeen. I think even Moray is more appropriate or Mhoireibh if we're keeping it Gaelic.
I am loving the Goidelic love we got though, I suggested Inverness ideas (Although there's many other variations that could be used) and I want to suggest some Ulster/Tyrone ideas by tonight/tomorrow. Obviously its up to Paradox to decide what happens, but I think some tweaking & additions to the area would certainly add more flavour.

With regards to the saltire being used before the Anglicisation of the lowland Scots, I have to disagree. The earliest use of the "cross" of the saltire was in the XII century, well after the Davidian Revolution. The royal arms and the saltire are both completely linked to Scotland, its like having the Northumbria tag use the St George's cross. Mhoireibh would be a good choice as it represents possibly the best candidate for alternative nation for the Highlanders with its own flag (ironically from the arms of an Anglo-Norman knight). I would even go as far as suggest that Aberdeenshire should be split in two for future DLCs, one half as the Scottish Aberdeenshire (Aberdeen was mainly made up of English speaking Scots) and the other half being Highlander Moray (capital Elgin).

Mind you if I could have the choice I'd also split up Ayrshire into Ayrshire and Clydesdale (capital Glasgow) with some of the province specific event shifting to the new province.

The extra love the Ireland got was to show that it could be a powerful and successful kingdom if united but it also did a lot to show how underpowered Scotland has now become.

 

[MacDuffin]

I see what you mean with the Saltire, I meant that its appropriate at least in the context that there isn't really a solid replacement, hence why I was thinking replacements.
The Anglo-Norman knight thing doesn't bother me as much however, there are quite a few clans with chieftans of that origin who where just as "Highlander" as the rest, in the same way the Old English arguably became just as Irish as the Irish Gaels.

I also agree on Aberdeenshire being split, at the moment its rather weird seeing the culture split. However, I do believe that Ireland is supposed to be the stronger region, the land is not only larger but is also more fertile. The Islands history of being consistently fragmented prevented from ever developing does not mean it didn't have more potential. Gameplay wise if Ireland was to unite, it would in theory have the size advantage.

 

[spinoza013]

I would argue that the area should be a Gaelic federation which is neither a republic nor a monarchy. Similar to the native American federation it could model the clan system.

The problem with the current Inverness province is that it includes both Macdonald and Campbell territory which for many reasons is unrealistic. I'd split Inverness into Rossand Argyll and remove Sutherland.

I knocked up a quick possible map


As for a flag I'd propose something similar to this

 

[spinoza013]

Having Perth as a central province could include Stirling Castle which was essentially the most strategic place between the lowlands and highlands.

 

[ComradeMaxist]

Having Perth as a central province could include Stirling Castle which was essentially the most strategic place between the lowlands and highlands.

That makes sense.

 

[ghengilhar]

I would argue that the area should be a Gaelic federation which is neither a republic nor a monarchy. Similar to the native American federation it could model the clan system.

The problem with the current Inverness province is that it includes both Macdonald and Campbell territory which for many reasons is unrealistic. I'd split Inverness into Rossand Argyll and remove Sutherland.

I knocked up a quick possible map


As for a flag I'd propose something similar to this

That was one of the flags I was thinking of too.

One slight nitpick about your map, with the current set up you have Glasgow is in Argyll which I would suggest removing. In an ideal world it would be its own province between Galloway and Argyll.

I also noticed that in my play through that after England completely crushes Scotland (usually within the first 50 years) Scotland always will lose its cores over the Highlands. There should be a decision that, if Scotland becomes an independent nation again they get permanent claims over the Highlands.

 

[spinoza013]

That was one of the flags I was thinking of too.

One slight nitpick about your map, with the current set up you have Glasgow is in Argyll which I would suggest removing. In an ideal world it would be its own province between Galloway and Argyll.

I also noticed that in my play through that after England completely crushes Scotland (usually within the first 50 years) Scotland always will lose its cores over the Highlands. There should be a decision that, if Scotland becomes an independent nation again they get permanent claims over the Highlands.

Yeah another province below Perth and Argyll would be good (more the merrier as far as I'm concerned) maybe called Strathclyde. But I was considering the increase in province number being veto'd by Paradox.

 

[spinoza013]

Maybe Highland ideas should include +100% hostile coring

 

[spinoza013]

Quick Redraw

 

[spinoza013]

Ideally I think Ross and the Hebrides combined as the Lordship of the Isles would start the game as a Vassal state to Scotland, arguably even Galloway under the Douglas. It would make the Scotland game more interesting.

 

[spinoza013]

would love to hear @DDRJake opinion on this?

 

[MacDuffin]

While I agree with how the map is better split, unfortunately do to the clan nature of things it will always be difficult to have definitive borders. I think the proposed map change is definitely an improvement.
While this is definitely getting nitpicky, why change from Sutherland to Ross? Through the game's timeline Ross was an area of waning control, although I do believe they got a hold of Lewis at one point. While Sutherland would grow in power, especially under the Gordon-Sutherland clan the region would get its contemporary boundaries. Granted, I think Ross is fine as well, I'm just curious to the reasoning, especially when there's three earldoms in the region, even if Caithness isn't always seen as "Highlander" it still was a region.

I also fully agree on a different government type, most of the region was still relatively Tribal in nature, I know if Zaporozhie is released it is also a Tribal nation. Although I think another idea would be to just form a new tribal Clan government, something hurting diplomacy, but increasing manpower and possibly maintenance costs.

 

[spinoza013]

I'd be more than than happy to see Sutherland as well. I thought I was pushing it having 10 provinces. As for Ross it was probably the most contested area between the highlands and the Crown so seemed a good name. It probably could just be called Highland to include Assynt, Ross, Caitness and Sutherland. But names aren't as overly important as the actual provincial divisions.

Yeah a tribal government type would be ideal

 

[spinoza013]

I should add that my grandparents were both Gaelic speakers from the outer Hebrides (Macdonalds ) so , although I was brought up in central Scotland, I should declare a certain bias in this

 

[DDRJake]

would love to hear @DDRJake opinion on this?

I'm from Moray mind, but I like Gàidhealtachd. We'll likely roll with Gaeldom for the sake of readability.