Ireland

[unmerged(9167)]

After reading Wales thread, I am wondering, how many province will Ireland have? Will Eire have 15 provinces? since it is 5 EU province time 3 equal 15.

Do u have any suggest of what ideal p;rovince number shoud be? By the way, what anout Israel, and Lebanon? How many province would they be? Since they had been subdivided many of time. So they comined would be 6 province, right?

That is just an examples

 

[St. Leo]

Hmm. I suspect that much of the island will be under the PTI.

 

[unmerged(9167)]

No it will not. Becuz Iceland will be in, and beside, Ireland were cradle of civilization in 7th and 8th century, and since then, even in 1066, Irish are ancknowledged as scholars. Even in 12th or was it 11th century, anyway, Austria had accepted an Irish as a partron Saint. My point is that Ireland may fell in importance but they were not unknowed. None of the area will be PTI. That would be ahistorical.

 

[Demetrios]

Originally posted by St. Leo
Hmm. I suspect that much of the island will be under the PTI.

Why would you think that?

 

[Idiotboy]

Good question. Ireland of the era was IMO more important than the backwater it later became.

 

[Johnny Canuck]

I'm not sure, though, how important Ireland was in the time period covered by CK. Unquestionably Ireland was quite important from about 300 AD to near the end of the first millenium, especially for its scholars and missionaries. However, I tend to think that by 1066, & especially afterwards, Ireland became a place that was affected by outside events & powers, not a place that affected outside powers. The "start" of English "colonization" in Ireland is generally given as 1170, which is not far after the start of CK.

Not that I'm against Ireland (the island, not the country, obviously) being in the game in great detail. It is just my opinion that the "glory days" of Ireland had already passed by 1066.

 

[Demetrios]

Originally posted by Johnny Canuck
I'm not sure, though, how important Ireland was in the time period covered by CK. Unquestionably Ireland was quite important from about 300 AD to near the end of the first millenium, especially for its scholars and missionaries. However, I tend to think that by 1066, & especially afterwards, Ireland became a place that was affected by outside events & powers, not a place that affected outside powers. The "start" of English "colonization" in Ireland is generally given as 1170, which is not far after the start of CK.

Not that I'm against Ireland (the island, not the country, obviously) being in the game in great detail. It is just my opinion that the "glory days" of Ireland had already passed by 1066.

That's not an unreasonable view (in fact most would start the Irish decline with the Viking invasions in the 900s), but no reason to consign it to the PTI...

1170 is actually quite a bit after the start of the game, over a whole century. No need to put those words in quotes; the English quite definitely began to colonize the island in 1170...

 

[Johnny Canuck]

Originally posted by Demetrios
That's not an unreasonable view (in fact most would start the Irish decline with the Viking invasions in the 900s), but no reason to consign it to the PTI...

I completely agree that it is not a reason to consign it to PTI.

1170 is actually quite a bit after the start of the game, over a whole century. No need to put those words in quotes; the English quite definitely began to colonize the island in 1170...

Well, I put it in quotation marks as what began in 1170 was not colonization in the usual meaning of the term. I would say that it was a chaotic mixture of vassalages, imposition of a feudal system, and vastly outnumbered enclaves of actual English colonists. Ireland was, frankly, a mess during this time.

 

[Demetrios]

Originally posted by Johnny Canuck


I completely agree that it is not a reason to consign it to PTI.



Well, I put it in quotation marks as what began in 1170 was not colonization in the usual meaning of the term. I would say that it was a chaotic mixture of vassalages, imposition of a feudal system, and vastly outnumbered enclaves of actual English colonists. Ireland was, frankly, a mess during this time.

LOL, indeed it was. In fact, it has been, frankly, quite a mess for much of its history since then...

 

[unmerged(28)]

Ireland = No PTI

/Greven

 

[Idiotboy]

Originally posted by Demetrios


LOL, indeed it was. In fact, it has been, frankly, quite a mess for much of its history since then...

Then anyone taking on the role of irish will have his work cut out for him then.

 

[unmerged(9167)]

Ireland = No PTI

That is good to hear

It is possible to turn around Ireland, is not it? As human player, we may colonize Eangland instead On serious note, until during 11th century, Irish had invaded and colonzing Wales, they raided there then settle among west coast, only until England got stronger, that Irish stopped doing that, and even so, they colonized Scotland. So why not colonize England? It is possible if Irish had been united and determined.

 

[Demetrios]

Originally posted by Zhai


That is good to hear

It is possible to turn around Ireland, is not it? As human player, we may colonize Eangland instead On serious note, until during 11th century, Irish had invaded and colonzing Wales, they raided there then settle among west coast, only until England got stronger, that Irish stopped doing that, and even so, they colonized Scotland. So why not colonize England? It is possible if Irish had been united and determined.

Surely you are talking about the 5th - 7th century, not the 11th! There may have been people from Ireland raiding Wales in the 11th century, but they were Vikings from Dublin, not native Irish...

 

[unmerged(9167)]

Surely you are talking about the 5th - 7th century, not the 11th! There may have been people from Ireland raiding Wales in the 11th century, but they were Vikings from Dublin, not native Irish...

Thanks, I was confusing them, after all by that time, most of Vikings have Irish blood in them. They are mostly Irish in essence but I see ur point. They are still partly Viking and last time a native Irish do that to Wales were in 8th century, at opening of Viking raid, stopping Irish raider. However, I stick with whjat I said, why not Irish be the leader of "Great Britian" or that Irish could olonize England, they are strong enough to do that IF thney are UNITED. I intend to unify Irish and establish a Irish Empire and restablish Celt presence in Europe outside of Brittany

 

[unmerged(6668)]

I guess the short answer is that Ireland couldnt even unify herself, let alone pose a threat to the other isles. No offense intended here, but at the time, they were incapable of cooperating even against the English. The "political" system, if it can even be called such, in Ireland was a ramshackle mess held over from the Dark Ages. Only a very strong and long-lived king was able to make any headway against the other Irish, let alone foreign invaders like the English or Vikings (Brian Boru); and upon his death, it would all collapse back into anarchy.

Most, if not all, ventures made across the sea in this period were by "Irish" Vikings. And lets face it, the only real fortified cities were such because they were held by those Vikings (Dublin, Limerick, etc.)! If Strongbow did what he did with such a paltry force, then how could Ireland even make a dent in Wales or England?

 

[Johnny Canuck]

Originally posted by Zhai


Thanks, I was confusing them, after all by that time, most of Vikings have Irish blood in them. They are mostly Irish in essence but I see ur point. They are still partly Viking and last time a native Irish do that to Wales were in 8th century, at opening of Viking raid, stopping Irish raider. However, I stick with whjat I said, why not Irish be the leader of "Great Britian" or that Irish could olonize England, they are strong enough to do that IF thney are UNITED. I intend to unify Irish and establish a Irish Empire and restablish Celt presence in Europe outside of Brittany

I would say that it should be at least theoretically possible to unify Ireland, but it ought to be extremely, extremely difficult to do so. It definitely should not be a case of just annexing a few provinces & proclaiming yourself High King of Ireland!

 

[unmerged(9167)]

I would say that it should be at least theoretically possible to unify Ireland, but it ought to be extremely, extremely difficult to do so. It definitely should not be a case of just annexing a few provinces & proclaiming yourself High King of Ireland!

Truth! But that is what makes it interesting

 

[Demetrios]

Originally posted by Johnny Canuck


I would say that it should be at least theoretically possible to unify Ireland, but it ought to be extremely, extremely difficult to do so. It definitely should not be a case of just annexing a few provinces & proclaiming yourself High King of Ireland!

Of course it should be that easy! Unfortunately gaining the title of High King will probably give you little actual added power.

But then again, the game is more about prestige than raw power...

 

[Johnny Canuck]

Originally posted by Demetrios
But then again, the game is more about prestige than raw power...

Hmm, I keep forgetting that! It must be my bad EU2 habits. I shall have to rectify that!

 

[unmerged(485)]

Back to the original post - I really don't see a need to add any more provinces to Ireland unless you would want to differentiate the Viking provinces (actually just cities) from the Irish provinces.