Ironborn improvements

[Slavicist]

Are there any Ironborn improvements coming forth for the next version of the mod, pending the release of WoL and patch 2.3?

Namely, I am referring primarily to their non-canonical participation in the War of the Five Kings option, in which they choose to ally with the Starks.

 

[RedRoverMan]

As long as Balon was Lord, I don't think the Ironborn would ever 'ally' with the Starks or anyone. At best they would simply attack the Lannisters as an opportunistic move whilst the main Western forces are otherwise occupied. Even in the case of a Stark & Ironborn victory, they would both be independent realms. I can't see them being allied unless you married Theon to Sansa/Arya or Asha to Rob. All of those things you can do with the existing system.

 

[Ogredy]

There is an option to ally with Starks. You get a message when Theon comes where you get to choose whether to ally with them or "pay the iron price" and declare war on them.

 

[blackninja9939]

We offer non-canon options in some places if they could have been canon eg: Aegon going East, it could have easily happened but didn't

And no for the last time we keep telling you we are not planning on any major ironborn improvements... we have told you this so very many times man!

 

[Slavicist]

As long as Balon was Lord, I don't think the Ironborn would ever 'ally' with the Starks or anyone. At best they would simply attack the Lannisters as an opportunistic move whilst the main Western forces are otherwise occupied. Even in the case of a Stark & Ironborn victory, they would both be independent realms.

And if Balon perishes?

I can't see them being allied unless you married Theon to Sansa/Arya or Asha to Rob. All of those things you can do with the existing system.

How? Do you mean by "existing system" - "console cheating"?

There is an option to ally with Starks. You get a message when Theon comes where you get to choose whether to ally with them or "pay the iron price" and declare war on them.

It is not an alliance; it is a declaration of war on the Westerlands - while at the same time, quite nonsensically, not against The Iron Throne itself.
It seems that Tywin's pretty much OK with the Ironborn ravaging across his homeland with the Tyrells too outside...and that Tywin can even easily meet his doom.

There is no alliance because the Starks are after the end of the invasion of the Lannisters still at their war. And while the Lannisters may have been kicked out, there is no way to help them either. And the buggyness of The Great War System leads to this effectively only getting the Ironborn out of the war, since all of my new Westland vassals continue their participation in a war against the Starks. While I think someone mentioned save-reloading should fix that problem, it didn't work for me in the end. And eventually, the Lannisters just rebel against my rule and rise up and they can still mount a potent force, just when I've returned all of my men home...so the only viable strategy for the Lannisters, as someone had already suggested, would be to lead a long war of gradual total conquest, in which my aim would be to exterminate as much of the Lannisters and their prominent vassal families. While rampant murder might be canonical, I don't think that a long war of attrition is the way of the Ironborn. As the matter of fact, I am quite sure that their primary strategy is a swift strike tactic. That is also not a good path game-wise, due to the fact that by the time I slowly siege through every darn little holding and go on to kill as many Lannisters as I can the Starks have already been beaten and my contribution to the struggle for independence is not sufficient. And by then the great wars across Westeros are already over and I'm actually alone against everyone.

I'm not sure what are precisely the events that led to that, but in one of my playthroughs the Starks (Stannis as their liege), my supposed allies, are actually the ones who were the most responsible for my defeat (they bent the knee).

We offer non-canon options in some places if they could have been canon eg: Aegon going East, it could have easily happened but didn't

And no for the last time we keep telling you we are not planning on any major ironborn improvements... we have told you this so very many times man!

I'm not referring to major improvements; just tweaks. I'm thinking about the comment on Citedal in which a user mentioned that since the latest several patches The Iron Islands require a major workover; I thought the one who post had actually been one of the devs.

Having said that, some of the issues I've mentioned indeed do require fixing prior playing th Ironborn.

 

[sharold]

Pick off the armies of Tywin Lannister and the Iron Throne to aid the North, then focus on the sieging the Westerlands. That way the North and Riverland armies can have an easier time winning against a much weakend Iron Throne. That should sufficiently solve the problem. End The War of the Five Kings first, then focus on the invasion of the Westerlands.

As The Ironborn, you wouldn't have to siege anything belong to the throne, you'd just pick off stacks of armies so the Starks wouldn't need to deal with them. As for the rest of the game outside that one war, they seem to be functioning well enough for a free mod.

 

[Slavicist]

Pick off the armies of Tywin Lannister and the Iron Throne to aid the North, then focus on the sieging the Westerlands. That way the North and Riverland armies can have an easier time winning against a much weakend Iron Throne. That should sufficiently solve the problem. End The War of the Five Kings first, then focus on the invasion of the Westerlands.

Should not ending the great war be very, very bad for me, leaving me alone fighting against the Lannisters and whatever allies they can pool in (without the Starks & Tullies, and, potentially, the Arryn)?

As The Ironborn, you wouldn't have to siege anything belong to the throne, you'd just pick off stacks of armies so the Starks wouldn't need to deal with them. As for the rest of the game outside that one war, they seem to be functioning well enough for a free mod.

Yes, they indeed are functioning nicely; I'm referring specifically to the ACOK start date.

Sieging through is necessary if I want to get the counties to myself and kill off the nobles. Any IB invasion that ends with a success simply after battles leaves a heap of newly-aquired grossly angered vassals, who immediately plot and raise a rebellion against the Iron Isles, and who can hardily be controlled. :sad:

 

[sharold]

Ok, look at it the worst case scenario for both. If you help the Starks win the War of the Five Kings, at worst you will be an idependent Iron Islands. If you don't help them, you will suffer the same fate as them if you lose, and may even have the Iron Islands break up into duchies as the Iron Throne becomes LP of the Iron Islands.

If you help the North/Riverlands win, you'll be left to take on the Westerlands solo yes. However, they will still be at war as allies of the Iron Throne against Renly/Stannis in their claim war for the Iron Throne. The Stormlands can be an unintentional ally because their battles will allow you to take on a weakened and unfocused Westerlands, they will be sending troops to help the Iron Throne as well as push you back. You won't be real allies withthe Stormlands, so you can peace out whenever you reach what you want, as can Stannis/Renly once they win or lose.

 

[Slavicist]

Ok, look at it the worst case scenario for both. If you help the Starks win the War of the Five Kings, at worst you will be an idependent Iron Islands. If you don't help them, you will suffer the same fate as them if you lose, and may even have the Iron Islands break up into duchies as the Iron Throne becomes LP of the Iron Islands.

If you help the North/Riverlands win, you'll be left to take on the Westerlands solo yes. However, they will still be at war as allies of the Iron Throne against Renly/Stannis in their claim war for the Iron Throne. The Stormlands can be an unintentional ally because their battles will allow you to take on a weakened and unfocused Westerlands, they will be sending troops to help the Iron Throne as well as push you back. You won't be real allies withthe Stormlands, so you can peace out whenever you reach what you want, as can Stannis/Renly once they win or lose.

Hm. Very interesting.

But regarding the war for King's Landing: don't the Baratheons win fairly quickly and the war of independence almost always turns into a war against Stannis (seldom Renly)?

 

[sharold]

Sometimes, I've been the North and have seen the Baratheon claim war drag on for awhile. I have also seen it end pretty quickly as you said. With all of that, either Stannis or Renly can offer peace to the North because their was was against Joffery/whatever Lannister is on the throne. That does happen occasionally, which means that things go back to the status quo. That isn't too bad of an outcome either.

 

[Slavicist]

So in the case the War for the Iron Throne's over quickly, the only reasonable tactic should be to abandon The North's plight and rush to take whatever I can from the Westlands, since a secessionist victory would leave me fighting the Lannisters completely alone (with a lot of potential reinforcements coming up for them)?