Is Balon Greyjoy at the ACOK start date WAD?

[Slavicist]

King Balon just gets the decision on whether to invade the Kingdom of the North (cannonically) or the Westerlands. But apart from that, there's no other option to decide on the war sides. Say, if I invade the Lannisters and beat them (what with Robb occupying Tywin's chief armies), which I did, they all just become my vassals and the title of Lord Paramount of the Westerlands goes to me. There's no intrigue decision to join the separatists and further fight in the war alongside the Starks against the Crown - or the Tyrells and Baratheons for that matter. And somehow I've got the crown of the Iron Islands and am at peace with the Iron Throne, despite actually being a secessionist just like king Robb.

Is this WAD? I'm not even allied to the Northerners while I fight the Lannisters, so we can't even join forces (at the later stage of the war). And I had ideas to move the Iron Fleet all around Westeros and land directly on Dragonstone and then King's Landing, preferably killing off Stannis and taking King's Landing on a charge-through. I know it was a long shot and in the reality would hard to expect the Ironborn would do that, but that's just it; no one would expect a Greyjoy invasion from the east. Also didn't Yara, at least by the TV series, did the same while she was trying to save Theon (though, I know, that was a more of a stealth operation)?

My only real options seem to be to either pay the iron price or invade; I just don't get it. :blink: I'm most certainly not gonna invade the North (or even just the Riverlands, which are anyways sworn to Robb), who should be on our side; invading The Reach would be near-suicidal with them being able to field the largest forces than all the other great houses (at least far more than me, who just lost thousands of men fighting the Lannisters) and me not being able to ally with Robb in such a war in order to coordinate troops. And invading The Vale and Dorne makes even less sense. I guess I could pay the iron price against the Throne, in order to pick off some troops and thereby assist Robb, but that still doesn't make me an ally of the North (and The Vale, in case it joins them). That means that when they end the war, I'll continue to be at war so I'll have to fight the super-king and whomever is still loyal to him. In case Robb loses, I might actually find myself in the same position the Greyjoys did during the first rebellion (and we all know how that went).

Does the game expect the Greyjoys to, after beating the Lannisters, just sit down and cheer, staying away from the war? :mellow:

And also, why are all of my vassals still at war with Robb (individually, including Lord Tywin of Casterly Rock)? Shouldn't I have won the war and effectively kicked the Westerners ought of their plight to support king Joffrey?

 

[Slavicist]

Anyone on this?

 

[Rambo]

Anyone on this?

You would probably get a better answer from the modders on their own mod forum.

 

[Vendrin]

There used to be an option where you could join Robb in that scenario. Maybe its changed.

 

[Slavicist]

You would probably get a better answer from the modders on their own mod forum.

I did; no reply from anyone there.

 

[Rubidium]

There used to be an option where you could join Robb in that scenario. Maybe its changed.

They switched it to an option to invade the Westerlands (instead of the North). Which makes sense, since that was kind of what Theon offered, but now leaves them independent whether they win or lose, and gives them no further stake in the rebellion.

 

[Slavicist]

They switched it to an option to invade the Westerlands (instead of the North). Which makes sense, since that was kind of what Theon offered, but now leaves them independent whether they win or lose, and gives them no further stake in the rebellion.

An invasion of the Westerlands would not have been a war, but a part of a military offensive in a war; a war that is for the secession of The Iron Islands and The North, i.e. an independent crown.

But the key problem here is that the Westerland vassals continue to be at war against the Starks. They may now be my vassals and broken apart, instead of being directly subjected to Casterly Rock, but they all continue to be at war along with the Iron Throne. I have yet to find a way how to command them to stand down their armies.
From that aspect, the main way it should be played is by keeping a warscore at 100% and fighting Lannister armies, to prevent the enemy from using it against the Starks. Making peace, even if victory, is detrimental because all those men are now free to raise their forces and return to fight King Robb.

 

[Rubidium]

Eh, my experience has always been that Renly/Stannis pretty much always wins the war quickly, at which point the Starks either bend the knee or lose. I can't remember the last game I played that didn't end with the North returning to the Iron Throne when I wasn't Robb. I think the idea behind making it an invasion was to let the Ironborn actually get something out of it, as invading the North only for their rebellion to end tends to make you independent by default, while fighting the Iron Throne was more risky and failure-prone.

The vassals fighting independently sounds like a problem with the multiwar system. You can use the console to kill them off and that should cause them to drop out, if you don't mind a bunch of minor cannon characters dying in rapid succession.

But really, you should press the war as much as you can anyway, if only to reduce the number of Faith of the Seven Westerlanders as your vassals. Otherwise you'll have to deal with factions out the wazoo; remember that every county you occupy during the invasion goes directly to you afterwards, but others remain with their original lords, all of whom hate your infidel foreign invader guts.

 

[Slavicist]

Eh, my experience has always been that Renly/Stannis pretty much always wins the war quickly, at which point the Starks either bend the knee or lose. I can't remember the last game I played that didn't end with the North returning to the Iron Throne when I wasn't Robb. I think the idea behind making it an invasion was to let the Ironborn actually get something out of it, as invading the North only for their rebellion to end tends to make you independent by default, while fighting the Iron Throne was more risky and failure-prone.

But the game can be won - although with a degree of difficulty - if the player takes on Robb Stark's role. Ergo, it shouldn't be impossible. It may be improbable, and that is precisely why I want the Ironborn to join in, jumping in assistance. But perhaps maybe you're right - the Starks outta have better generals and Robb's AI worked to be a little more cunning during warfare.
And keep on mind that The Vale sometimes joins the Starks. That means that in one case, we could have the following on the secessionist faction:
* North+Riverlands
* Vale
* Iron Islands+Westerlands

That means, basically, a majority. There should be little difficulty to crush the loyalist forces, especially if only the Stormlands and The Reach remain on The Iron Throne's side (i.e. the Martels remain neutral).

Perhaps and AI Robb could make more use of attrition?

But really, you should press the war as much as you can anyway, if only to reduce the number of Faith of the Seven Westerlanders as your vassals. Otherwise you'll have to deal with factions out the wazoo; remember that every county you occupy during the invasion goes directly to you afterwards, but others remain with their original lords, all of whom hate your infidel foreign invader guts.

That's interesting, but I want to just push my forces onwards to join the Starks' in the Riverlands and fight off the Tyrells huge armies, or perhaps capture King's Landing. And I want to reinforce the Ironborn with the Westerlending joining up the fight (on the different side).

P. S. That's rather interesting; I can't demand conversion..?