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Jedibob5

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Aug 10, 2011
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With CK2+ apparently adding the ability for nearby rulers of the same religion to dogpile an attacker in de jure claim wars in the same way that holy wars do, the Jewish Sennar start in the Charlemagne bookmark has literally no way to expand. If you declare war on anyone, you have to essentially fight the entirety of Coptic East Africa at once. And since you can't marry off to infidels, you can't get any alliances, nor can you attempt to marry into claims. Attempts at lightning-wars don't work, because when you go to war, someone will invariably declare a separate war against you, making the idea of "capture land and negotiate peace before their allies can mobilize" pointless. Even swearing fealty to Abyssinia doesn't really get you anywhere, since everyone in the kingdom hates you, making any attempts at plotting or factionalism futile.

I guess the only real viable play would be to save up money for many years until you can afford enough mercenaries for long enough to fight off all your neighbors, then blow decades' worth of savings to acquire a single province, then repeat for another century or two until you have a meaningful power base. Is there some other option I'm missing here? I know Sennar is supposed to be difficult, but not literally impossible...
 
I guess the only real viable play would be to save up money for many years until you can afford enough mercenaries for long enough to fight off all your neighbors, then blow decades' worth of savings to acquire a single province, then repeat for another century or two until you have a meaningful power base. Is there some other option I'm missing here? I know Sennar is supposed to be difficult, but not literally impossible...

Doesn't sound as if it's literally impossible. Just difficult. You can always use a cheat code to give yourself thousands of gold to buy mercs, if you don't want to take a century to expand.

But then I guess that would be 'easy' and not 'difficult'.
 
With CK2+ apparently adding the ability for nearby rulers of the same religion to dogpile an attacker in de jure claim wars in the same way that holy wars do, the Jewish Sennar start in the Charlemagne bookmark has literally no way to expand. If you declare war on anyone, you have to essentially fight the entirety of Coptic East Africa at once. And since you can't marry off to infidels, you can't get any alliances, nor can you attempt to marry into claims. Attempts at lightning-wars don't work, because when you go to war, someone will invariably declare a separate war against you, making the idea of "capture land and negotiate peace before their allies can mobilize" pointless. Even swearing fealty to Abyssinia doesn't really get you anywhere, since everyone in the kingdom hates you, making any attempts at plotting or factionalism futile.

I guess the only real viable play would be to save up money for many years until you can afford enough mercenaries for long enough to fight off all your neighbors, then blow decades' worth of savings to acquire a single province, then repeat for another century or two until you have a meaningful power base. Is there some other option I'm missing here? I know Sennar is supposed to be difficult, but not literally impossible...

Sennar is not "supposed" to be anything. We do not balance the game for particular starts, any more than vanilla CK2 does -- they are what they are.

Insofar as warring on your neighbors, claim wars aren't treated as holy wars, so those are safe. Beyond that, you're on your own to figure out a strategy.
 
I'm drawing towards the end of a Sennar game right now where I managed to become King of Abyssinia after about two hundred years of grinding, picking on my smaller neigbours... if Abyssinia hadn't had a brutal civil war, I'd probably never have gotten to the point where I could take them down. But it's possible.

I ended up completely shifting the world order -- the Kohen Gadol called a Great Holy War for Punjab, so now I'm the Ethiopian Jewish Emperor of India...
 
Sennar is not "supposed" to be anything. We do not balance the game for particular starts, any more than vanilla CK2 does -- they are what they are.

Insofar as warring on your neighbors, claim wars aren't treated as holy wars, so those are safe. Beyond that, you're on your own to figure out a strategy.
Well okay then, no need to be rude... Sorry, I was just frustrated with seeing no practical way of getting anywhere with de jure claims being treated like holy wars...
 
Well okay then, no need to be rude... Sorry, I was just frustrated with seeing no practical way of getting anywhere with de jure claims being treated like holy wars...

You as well as the AI can always offer to join a defensive war with a neighbor (of the same religion). When they are defending against infidels.
 
I'm still for lightening marriage restrictions on heathens, especially since they weren't even in place until Paradox decided it had to be like that. In 867 start, I think, it's even possible for Navarra (Pamplona) to end up allied to a Muslim state if a certain person dies...
 
I'm still for lightening marriage restrictions on heathens, especially since they weren't even in place until Paradox decided it had to be like that. In 867 start, I think, it's even possible for Navarra (Pamplona) to end up allied to a Muslim state if a certain person dies...

Unfortunately, the way the restrictions are setup it's all or nothing. If we lift restrictions, let's say catholic v. sunni, then that allows marriages/alliance as historically happened between the two in Iberia, but this also opens up the English king marrying the Egyptian caliph's daughter as a marriage option too.
 
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Unfortunately, the way the restrictions are setup it's all or nothing. If we lift restrictions, let's say catholic v. sunni, then that allows marriages/alliance as historically happened between the two in Iberia, but this also opens up the English king marrying the Egyptian caliph's daughter as a marriage option too.

Can't we have a distance modifier weighing in the decision (like when AI decides on joining a war) and make it very important if the two infidels aren't bordering?
 
You could still lift the restriction between say, Coptic Christians and Muslims. That would not be as much prone to abuse, would possibly allow them to more easily coexist with muslims as they did, and add an extra fun unique layer for the religion.
 
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Can't it also be tied to culture? In zeress' previous example, the marriage, could be allowed only if one of the spouses had the Andalusian culture (or Visigothic, east African, or whatever you decide).
 
Can't it also be tied to culture? In zeress' previous example, the marriage, could be allowed only if one of the spouses had the Andalusian culture (or Visigothic, east African, or whatever you decide).

The define only cares about the religions. It's a hard coded limit we can do nothing about

It would at least be cool if you could marry a "Friend's" daughter/son even if your religion differs.

The recent DD seems to imply that you might be able to do something like that come next DLC, however they are very wishy washy on that