Is there a Brazil Events thread?

[unmerged(8544)]

Is there?

I have some ideas for events and tech teams. And as it seems everyone likes to play Brazil I think it would make the experiece more rewarding if not more educational.

 

[Ghost_dk]

Is there?

I have some ideas for events and tech teams. And as it seems everyone likes to play Brazil I think it would make the experiece more rewarding if not more educational.

There is no particular thread as of yet but you can use either this one or make a seperate thread in the HoI2 section at hoi.coremod.org/forum as the team follows all those threads posted and are happy to discuss new ideas.
So bring them on

 

[pimparel]

I have a couple of events almost ready to present... about the 'Estado Novo' and the Allied 'Lend-Lease'.

 

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Here are some of the things I was thinking about. Tell me what do you think of them.

First tech teams. Without too much thinking I would say ITA (Air Force Tecnical Institute), IME ( Military Enginnering Institute) and Fundação Oswaldo Cruz (very well know fundation on the branch of medicine and biology research).
Maybe AMAN (Academia Militar das Agulhas Negras - Agulhas Negras Military Academy) they would be in their firsts years.

Don't you think it's funny that Brazil starts the game in 36 as a left-wing radical?
I would say to be more historic the democratic slider and left-wing slider should move towards the center.
Or better yet. They should probably be in a position of Paternal Autocrat, close to comunism and to nacionalism.
It is very difficult to mimic the politics of that period. Vargas was a real figure. He wasn't a facist nor was he close to communism. He had he's own agenda. All he cared about was the country developing and becoming a major economy. He was very positivist, that's for sure.

So what are you going to do for "Estado Novo". I think to make things more open, and since it really was a period that the country could have easily gone a different way, it would be nice to have at least three options.

1. The historic one. A very autoritarian dictatorship witch sometimes pleased the commies and sometimes the facists. At least they all got persecuted (the commies a little more). But it should represent Vargas way of running things. He had a way of making everyone think he was on their side. But he only had he's own side.

2. Go the communist way. Maybe an alliance with Vargas and Prestes leading new reforms to the constitution and a Soviet intervention to garantee the procedings. Don't forget Prestes was arrested by the police in march 36.

3. The facist (integralist) way. Make Vargas dress in olive green and go around saying "Anauê". (The major facist group in Brazil at the time called themselves Integralists. And their salutation was the Tupi word "Anauê", and they dressed in olive green)

Anyway Vargas has to be in it. I just can't see anyway that the country could be without it's most significant leader of all time.

The text that appears in the screen when you select your country and scenarion should be chaged. It seems Paradox ended their research 10 year before the starting date. No word about the 'Intentona Comunista', nor about the 34 constitution or the emminent coup that was about to come.

Other things to consider would be:

Events that mimic the fight betwee Germany and USA for Brazil's support.
USA funding CSN and buying both brazilian support and the right to set up a military base in Natal.( I don't understand how can CSN be a tech team in 36 if it was founded in 41)
U-Boats sinking brazilian merchant ships.
The foundation of CSN (already mentioned), Conselho Nacional do Petroleo (that would became Petrobras) and Vale do Rio Doce in 43.

Ok, let's see what you think.
KOB

ps. And something must be done about that penalty that Vargas has on IC. That just doesn't fit him.
Also factory distribution is all wrong. Nordeste shouldn't have so many factories and São Paulo should have much more.

 

[pimparel]

First tech teams. Without too much thinking I would say ITA (Air Force Tecnical Institute), IME ( Military Enginnering Institute) and Fundação Oswaldo Cruz (very well know fundation on the branch of medicine and biology research).
Maybe AMAN (Academia Militar das Agulhas Negras - Agulhas Negras Military Academy) they would be in their firsts years.

Didn't think about Tech Teams, but those seem to be great additions.

Don't you think it's funny that Brazil starts the game in 36 as a left-wing radical?
I would say to be more historic the democratic slider and left-wing slider should move towards the center.
Or better yet. They should probably be in a position of Paternal Autocrat, close to comunism and to nacionalism.
It is very difficult to mimic the politics of that period. Vargas was a real figure. He wasn't a facist nor was he close to communism. He had he's own agenda. All he cared about was the country developing and becoming a major economy. He was very positivist, that's for sure.

I agree that we should set BRA as Paternal Autocrat, but with we do this in the present setting the whole government changes, so we also need to change the ministers to reflect their position.

So what are you going to do for "Estado Novo". I think to make things more open, and since it really was a period that the country could have easily gone a different way, it would be nice to have at least three options.

1. The historic one. A very autoritarian dictatorship witch sometimes pleased the commies and sometimes the facists. At least they all got persecuted (the commies a little more). But it should represent Vargas way of running things. He had a way of making everyone think he was on their side. But he only had he's own side.

2. Go the communist way. Maybe an alliance with Vargas and Prestes leading new reforms to the constitution and a Soviet intervention to garantee the procedings. Don't forget Prestes was arrested by the police in march 36.

3. The facist (integralist) way. Make Vargas dress in olive green and go around saying "Anauê". (The major facist group in Brazil at the time called themselves Integralists. And their salutation was the Tupi word "Anauê", and they dressed in olive green)

Anyway Vargas has to be in it. I just can't see anyway that the country could be without it's most significant leader of all time.

I was thinking about make BRA more democratic in the beggining and with this event we have an option to go closer to each BIG alliance, changing the goverment to a more Autoritarian.

The text that appears in the screen when you select your country and scenarion should be chaged. It seems Paradox ended their research 10 year before the starting date. No word about the 'Intentona Comunista', nor about the 34 constitution or the emminent coup that was about to come.

Agreed, also the picture, which I have a few option to replace it (some FEB cartoons).

Other things to consider would be:

Events that mimic the fight betwee Germany and USA for Brazil's support.
USA funding CSN and buying both brazilian support and the right to set up a military base in Natal.( I don't understand how can CSN be a tech team in 36 if it was founded in 41)

This MUST be in, and also the later Lend-Lease, with DD and Naval Bombers. Also a few Blue Prints.

U-Boats sinking brazilian merchant ships.

Increasing the War entry and setting away of the Axis Sphere.

ps. And something must be done about that penalty that Vargas has on IC. That just doesn't fit him.
Also factory distribution is all wrong. Nordeste shouldn't have so many factories and São Paulo should have much more.

We are in the same tune... the IC allocation in totally wrong, also the port in RS, a few spelling.

As I said, the whole minister thing is a little off. The Vargas IC penalty is a sure change!

maybe we could ally our efforts? maybe e-mail or MSN (and also in portuguese!)

Pimparel

 

[JRaup]

I'm currently gathering my thoughts and plans for a large Lend-Lease package for CORE. I have raw dollar ammounts of L-L aid, and which countries received how much, but nothing solid beyond that. If people have specific techs, and or equipment that nations received, I'd appreciate it. It will go a long way in making Lend-Lease a bit more worth while.

 

[Charles Louis]

Brazillian Mods

I have just played Brazil and I too wanted some events for Brazil. However before I mention them, I couldn't get them to run from a brazil.txt file in the events folder. I went to the events document in \db and added the line

event = "db\events\Brazil.txt"
right after austria. I tried it lower case as well, but that didn't help.

Brazil strikes me as fine for a left-wing radical, because of the effect it has on other kinds of governments in diplomacy as well as Vargas' agenda. However its only one slider move away from being a democracy, so I wanted some election events if that slider got moved.

I put my election events in march of 1940 and march of 1945. I made seperate events depending on which kind of government Brazil has at the time. Basically you could choose three options, a government to the right of your current position (with a shift not only on the left-right slider but going by the consitituional events, shifts in two other sliders as well. For example if your a social liberal and select the market liberal candidate, you get a one space move to the political right, a one space move toward a free market, and a one space move toward an open society) one to the left and one in the spot of your current goverment philosophy.

My third event was about the Estado Novo, which is basically nothing more than a scheduled combination of a nationalized economy (one more IC placed randomly and a point of dissent) and constituional event such as the social democrats might get, with a move of the sliders toward authortarian, closed society, and a conscript army. Brazil was given to choice to adopt the new policy or not. Not doing so had no effect.

Since other posters have mentioned some foriegn policy events, here are some ideas.

1) If Argentina selects yes to a pro-German event (to grant military access) and USA is not at war with Germany, the Brazil gets an option to provide German basing too, gets her authortarian slider moved two, and her left-right slider moved eight to the right. A subsequent event would invite Brazil to join the war (after 1943) as long as the US is not at war with Germany. If Argentina goes Axis, the event is triggered again. (Brazil may be asked once ot twice, depening on whether the Argentine trigger fires first.) If Brazil goes Axis, a similar Argentine event gets triggered. There is a USA event, which triggers if Brazil is providing Axis basing and USA is at war with Germany. Random = 10 and its repeatable, USA demands Brazil break off with Axis. Brazil can say yes or no, but every time she says no, -20 to relations with USA. This may require a new version of Vargas as a fascist, and perhaps some ministers, depending. The event could easily just place the fascist Vargas in as head of state, head of government.

2) If Germany DOW's Soviet union, and Brazil is LWR, Leninist, or Stalinist, Brazil gets option to join Comintern. Maybe require the presence of Oscar Weinschenck as foriegn minister for LWR entry. Entry should be reasonably low.

3) Standard allied entrance. First as soon as America is at war (early 1941) America asks for basing rights in Brazil. If Brazil says yes, America spends supplies and money and Brazil gets a free level 2 naval base on her north coast. In 1942, Brazil gets the option to take the lead at the American Foreign Ministers Conference in organizing breaking relations with the Axis (-50 relations Axis, +20 relations USA, UK, Canada). If the previous events have favored war entry, in 1943, after the Casablanca Conference, Roosevelt visits Brazil. Brazil can move her silder toward hawk and intervention or toward dove and non-intervention. If all the previous events favored war entry, Brazil gets to join the allies in 1943.

 

[pimparel]

I'm currently gathering my thoughts and plans for a large Lend-Lease package for CORE. I have raw dollar ammounts of L-L aid, and which countries received how much, but nothing solid beyond that. If people have specific techs, and or equipment that nations received, I'd appreciate it. It will go a long way in making Lend-Lease a bit more worth while.

Well I can look further into it, but this I have:

Those where to patrol the Atlantic
A-20 Boston
A-28
A-31
29 A-35 Vultee
7 B-25b; 1 B-25c; 11 B-25j-15; 10 B-25j-20 Mitchell
P-36a Hawk
P-40 Kittyhawk
PBY5 Catalina

Ships: http://www.ww2pacific.com/llnames.htm
Ship Comm New Name Country
DE-101 Alger 1943 Brazil
DE-99 Cannon 1943 Brazil
DE-100 Christopher 1943 Brazil
DE-178 Herzong 1943 Brazil
DE-175 Pennewill 1943 Brazil
DE-177 Reybold 1943 Brazil

PC-544 1942-44 Brazil
PC-546 1942-44 Brazil
PC-554 1942-44 Brazil
PC-561 1942-44 Brazil
PC-604-605 1942-44 Brazil
PC-607 1942-44 Brazil
PC-1236 1942-44 Brazil

SC-762-767 1942-44 Brazil
SC-1289 1942-44 Brazil

Those went to Italy:
88 P-47D Thunderbolt
USA shared some doctrines to the Divisions that went to Italy

 

[pimparel]

Also this:

Overview: After the suspension of the constitution from 1891, G. Vargas ruled the country (from 1930 until 1945) in a dictatorial fashion. On 09/03/1939 Brazil and U.S.A. concluded a treaty of mutual cooperation and economic assistance; on 28/01/1942 Brazil severed diplomatic relations with Germany and Italy, and on 22/08/1942 it declared war on both of these countries. On 06/06/1945 it declared war on Japan as well. During the war Brazil received 331.6 millions of U.S. dollars and considerable quantities of military equipment as part of the Lend-Lease loan package, in exchange, it supplied the Allies with some badly needed strategic raw materials simultaneously offering its own military bases for use by the Allies. The growing pro-democracy movement forced Vargas to make several concessions to his dictatorial powers, some of which included the reinstatement of the constitution, political amnesties, and legalization of the Communist Party.

more ships:
AP-24 Orizaba 1941 7078 Lend-Lease to Brazil
AP-75 Gemini 1942 1745 Lend-Lease to Brazil

Total Sum:
Brazil US$ 332,545,226.43

 

[unmerged(8544)]

Brazil strikes me as fine for a left-wing radical, because of the effect it has on other kinds of governments in diplomacy as well as Vargas' agenda. However its only one slider move away from being a democracy, so I wanted some election events if that slider got moved.

It is really hard to simulate south american goverments by using the european left and right sistem. Brazil only started having a working class, in the style of the english XVIII century, in the 60s. All of South America had a very late industrialization process. Not to mention that in most countries the elite class, formed by the military and the aristocracy, remained very powerful during the XX century (and it still is today, especially in the interior of the country). So south american countries never had the pre-requisites to form left or right ideologies. (The USA doen't fit into this pattern either)

Historically Vargas was far from being a left-wing, and even farther from being radical. He represented a positivist military faction that is so powerful in Brazil throughout(sp?) it's history. But he wasn't only that, he was a remarkable politician and one thing must be said about him: He wasn't in it for himself, he was in it for the country.

So, "Estado Novo" was actually the consolidation of a coup that started in 1930. In 1930 Vargas together with his friends in the military and the goverment architected a coup to free the nation from 20 years of stagnation. They tought that it was about time that Brazil entered the industrialization process, and became a great power in the world. So Vargas was installed as "temporary" president. He remained so for 4 years and with the new liberal constitution of 34 he was then "elected" by the congress to be the official president. As you can see this was also a sort of coup.
In 1935 and 1936 the tensions on the international level started to mount. In Brazil there was the "Intentona Comunista" witch was the foundation of a legal "comunist" party, based on the liberties given by the 34 constitution, followed by a repressive response from the government the ecloded in a "revolt" (it was more like a street party according to some historians).

These events and the rising tension on the internation leval were pretexts that Vargas used to finally put an end to fallacy(sp?) and assume power as a dictator. From 37 to 45 Brazil was ruled with an iron fist, with Filinto Muller (Head of the Political Police) being the strong arm that really carried out the dirty work. Filinto's tortures are believed to have been worse and much more numerous than the ones perpetrated in the 64 dictatorship. (game note: in HOI2 Filinto Muller is not very well portraited. He should be Facist and a Prince of Terror or Crime Fighter). Dispite (sp?), because of all the nuances that I'm omiting here, he was a very popular men. And was reelected to be president in 1950.

During this years Brazil really pended from the Allies's side to the Axis's side. And Vargas did this on purposed because, as I said, he wanted the best for his country's interest.

Vargas did start some modernization reforms. Like regularization of labor and infrastructure projects but it wasn't until his "democratic" government in 1950 that he really passed laws that we would consider to be seen as "left-winged".

KOB

 

[unmerged(8544)]

Here are some pictures for the tech teams.

(Oh! How I wish we could add a description to tech teams, it would really improuve role-play. "When I play Poland I want to know who the tech teams are and what as their place in history).

Anyway

Some pictures:

ITA - Instituto Tecnológico da Aeronautica ( Air Force Technology Institute) The top rate resercher in aeronautics, eletronics, technology and engineering.

Building

Wings

IME - IME at the time as called Escola Tecnica do Exército (Army Tech School - Think I need help on this translation)

Building that needs editing (The best I could find)

Fiocruz - At the time it was Instituto Oswaldo Cruz

Building (That's right it is a palace)

Ok that's it for now.
KOB

ps. One other thing that should be changed is the names of armies, fleets and air forces. No more "Flotillas" and "Brazilian Navy".

 

[pimparel]

a nice link

http://books.stonebooks.com/cgi-bin/foxweb.exe/armies/unithist?BZ101

 

[unmerged(39334)]

IME - IME at the time as called Escola Tecnica do Exército (Army Tech School - Think I need help on this translation)

"Academy of Military Tactics" would be pretty close for english.

These events and the rising tension on the internation leval were pretexts that Vargas used to finally put an end to fallacy(sp?) and assume power as a dictator.

I think "fallacy" is supposed to be "farce"?