Is Victoria good for a player new to Paradox games?

[robc04]

Hi,
I am asking for your opinions here. I have EU3 and HOI 2. I think they are decent games. I have only played them a little. Neither has ranked in my favorites. My favorite game of all time is the Civilization series. I know this is lighter fare than a typical Paradox game. I don't really care for the battles in a game like the Total War series. Dawn of Discovery seemed too basic and a little cheezy.

I am looking for games with depth, at least seem realistic, and have a good single player AI. I tend to like games that encompass more than just the battles, but that isn't hard and fast. I also tend to like games where you start relatively small and build yourself up. Sometimes I have a hard time managing a large area / large number of units right off the bat.

Would a game like Victoria / Victoria Revolutions be too hard to get into? I would appreciate any recommendations of games, either Paradox or otherwise. Also I am leary of Victoria since I found mostly negative reviews.

Thanks

 

[Anthropoid]

I was a long-time thrall to the Civ series, until I started playing Matrix strategy wargames and fell in love (again) with the detail (I played hex-map board games in High School with my history class).

I raved about EU3 when I got it, and HTT still more. That lasted for about a month. Then I 'figured it out' and haven't played it for several weeks. Not to say it is not a fantastic game that I highly recommend, but I just haven't played it for a while, despite feeling it is a fantastic game.

EURome Gold: also a fantastic game though somewhat flawed. Same general outcome for me: played it hard for a few weeks, and then moved on.

Next came Crusader King's Deus Vult: In general conception, probably the best of the EU games I've played. It is just that it is a bit old, and I got distracted by Victoria.

I have not played HOI series at all. I bought AOD but have only just started picking at the tutorials.

Now about Vicky Rev: amazing game. I've been playing nothing else for weeks now and I have yet to fully "figure it out," though I'd say I'm well past the basic understanding level, and getting close to the "mastering it" stage. The thing is with a game like this, even once you master it, there is always different nations, different scenarios for you to self impose or mod (e.g., it is very easy to go into the database files and change a 5% value to a 95% value, which i did with the "Conservative Empire" event for Prussia which causes the ahistorical formation of Germany in 1850). Maybe I'll burn out soon, and move on to something else, but in the mean time, there is nothign else I'd rather do in my free time than play Vicky Rev. Oh yeah, i finally did patch up to VIP mod and love it. Would recommend waiting to do that though until you feel like you have the basic game figured out.

It is one of the hardest games I've ever tried to learn, next to probably War in the Pacific by Matrix as the hardest game to learn of them all. But it is _well-worth_ the effort. If you like Civ, and you are asking this question, then my guess is that you will love Vicky Rev. Moreover it costs like $20 or less on Gamersgate.com.

 

[Lt. Tyler]

I would tend to agree that if you're a big CIV fan, then likely the most similar Paradox analog is going to be Victoria. Vicky has the province management/development, tech development, and people/political management that are reminiscent of CIV. Throw that on top of the historical base typical for Paradox and you get Vicky.

IMO, Vicky is the BEST Paradox game out there, though I haven't played HOI, nor have I played much EU3 (I cut my teeth on EU2, and just couldn't find a way to transition over that worked for me). It is a pretty hard game though, and I'd guess that those negative reviews are from people who didn't put the time in to reach a certain level of appreciation of it.

As for starting small and building up, many of the starting nations fit that bill (though some more than others). I've played most countries, some more than others, but off the top of my head countries like Prussia (forming Germany), Sardinia-Piedmont, Two Silicies (both can form Italy), Japan, USA, Mexico all start at varying levels of small, and get bigger.

Lastly, if you like the historical aspect of things, I'd definitely recommend VIP, but as Anthropoid noted, probably not from the start. I really love VIP.

 

[unmerged(16676)]

The game is easy to play, and difficult to master.

It remains my favorite Paradox game to this day, you can play it historically, or change history and have vastly different types of outcomes.

Learning how to play well depends on how you define 'well'.

If you do buy it, make sure to get 'revolutions' as this adds a lot to the game and makes it far more interesting.

 

[unmerged(164401)]

from your story there, i think Vicky is your game, and if you are into the Victorian period, then it can't get any better.

i too have tried the total war series (Rome and Medieval 2), and dumped it after a while. it seems now that the strategy in it is just a little too shallow for me. of course when you are used to a visual game like the total war series, its hard to look into those "visual free" games. reviews and a friend got me into the PI's games, and Vicky is my first and only. IMHO, this is the best strategy game i have ever come across. so good, that i don't know when will i ever move on to HOI or EU.

if u are not into battles, then i do see why u dont like the HOI series. EU3 is good candidate but since you are looking for more into a strategy game, then u should like Vicky, and that's because there's that politics part that is added in to it which makes the game even more interesting. the thing i love most about Vicky is the POPs system, and i am sure you will enjoy this. you have got several types of POPs (from aristocrats to capitalists, clerks..etc) and you have got do your best to please them all in order to achieve your ambitions. game is very creative and a lot of effort is put in to it. the major let downs are the awful lot of microgmangement, interface, and the combat system. the latter has a good reason to be a let down though as the game is not really meant to be a war game.

so i recomend you read the manual and see yourself if this is your game or not. this is the best way to know if the game suits u or not.

 

[robc04]

I want to thank everyone for their input. It does seem like people either love the game or hate it based on the comments here and the reviews I've seen elsewhere. It does seem like I might like this game, so as one of the posters suggested I may read the manual to get a better idea what the game is about. It's too bad there isn't a demo.

I will keep following the thread to see if anyone has more comments and thanks again to those who posted.

 

[gornard]

I have always loved the civ games, i also played every total war game except for shogun (although i have to admit i liked the battles). It was actually through comparison of the total war series with the paradox games that i heard about them.
I started with EU3 and immediatly noticed some of what didn't seem quite right in the total war series. Although it is probably the worst of the 3 paradox games i played. It was a bit of a chore maintaining stability and i didn't like the trade system so much.
Hoi2 was my next port of call, in some ways it's the easiest to get into once you have a few of the eccentricities of the system down. Little time is spent on nation building, it's all geared towards the big wars and handles this very well with a balanced and multi path battle system. The game leaves alot of allowances for making war your own way and as any country, but you are a bit more constrained by the country you start as then in the other games. The focus in terms of empire building is on industry and key resources, so for example most of africa is pretty much useless except for strategic reasons.

I only started playing victoria recently, and so far it's my favorite. Maybe the most complex in some respects, but once you've read the manual and played the fan made tutorial it's alot of fun and the system works well. Warfare is inbetween HOI and EU in complexity, more focus on economy, society and politics less on national leaders. Playing a smaller country and accellerating yourself to a great power feels very rewarding (i'm playing belgium) and the diplomacy system is very flexible. There are a number of paths to persue beyond war with the great powers, from conquering bankrupt uncivilised powers, partaking in the scramble for africa, civilising a fledgling nation or concentrating on a strong industrial base. Improving your military, prestige and industry are essential to imrpoving your standing amongst other nations and securing preferntial access to comodities. Colonising has a profound effect on your power in the world, both from manpower and prestige.

Also i think you should get revolutions, simply because capitalists make getting to grips with the industry alot easier IMO.

 

[Lt. Tyler]

Also i think you should get revolutions, simply because capitalists make getting to grips with the industry alot easier IMO.

If you're going to get Victoria, absolutely get REvolutions. It adds not just the capitalist ability to build factories and railroads, but also adds years 1921-1936, 5 new techs, and important changes to various culture/political related aspects.

It's definitely a must have!

 

[unmerged(16676)]

Another appeal is the ability to radically change history.

For example, my last game as France I managed to avoid war with all the great powers, which prevented Germany from forming, and ended up a solid third behind Britain and the USA.

It made a great transition game to HoI2 where France is the world's leading power and leader of the allies, of which the UK is not a member!

 

[MannheimCouncil]

I think you could like Vicky. I came from the Civ camp myself and in its current incarnation Vicky trumps even Alpha Centauri for me.

Be warned that they are very different games, despite all the similarities. There is no real start tiny - explore/build/research - end up huge progression (maybe the reason why so many people like to play the underdogs in Vicky). There is no intuitive user interface and the learning curve is very steep. You'll have to invest a lot of time to learn the ropes, but then Vicky really shows its worth.

I agree with the others here. There is really no reason not to buy Victoria: Complete straight away. Revolution adds so much to the game.

 

[Snaake]

I'd like to state that a quite possible reason for bad reviews is that Paradox used to be in the bad habit of releasing (or maybe being forced to release, due to budget reasons) their games before final optimisation and testing had brought about a completely polished game. It's one of the best companies in the industry when it comes to releasing patches and other support, so all games have eventually become classics of their genres in my opinion.

Further, I recommend Victoria 2 when it comes out (should be in the autumn): there's going to be a lot less micromanagement, better interface, etc etc.

 

[henryjai]

vicky is easier than you think, especially you have a concept of managing stuffs and fundamental mathematics (like addition, subtraction, multiplication...)

 

[Anthropoid]

The only thing about waiting for Vicky2 is this: Victoria Complete is way cheap, and it is a game at its pinnacle of development that has (at this moment) no exact substitute. Pay the $20 DL it from Gamersgate, patch it up if it is not, and start playing NOW! (as opposed to "this autumn" or perhaps later). Then when you get the hang of it, copy your Vicky Rev folder to your desktop and iinstall the VIP (Victoria Improvement Project) mod on your desktop copy. Now you have -two- games for the price of one. A "vanilla" Revolutions game; and a somewhat more difficulty, historically-focused version.

By the autumn, you just might be a Vicky Rev or Vicky Rev VIP master.

Then when Vicky2 comes out, you can be on the cutting edge of enjoying that new game too!

 

[robc04]

Thanks everyone. I did buy it and am doing the tutorial one of the thoughtful forum participants put together. Then I will read the manual for good measure. If I end up liking it I will be in really good shape this fall when Civilization 5 and Vicky 2 come out. In any case at least I will have Civ 5!