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JeffSteel

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Jul 28, 2006
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I started as Daemon Blackfyre in the blackfyre rebellion scenario, and after a couple of attempts (i.e. restarts after dying in battle two weeks in and getting crushed) I finally won the civil war. It's been fun playing through a few generations of pure blooded inbreed balckfyres, but there a few issues I've noticed while playing. I'm not meaning to rant, these are just my observations.

1) Lord Paramounts sometimes during mega civil wars simply name themselves Kings of their lands for no reason I can tell. This isn't when they opportunistically rebel during a civil war or rebel when you try to imprison them. It doesn't seem to matter what side they are on or if they are neutral, I'll win (or lose.... heh) my civil war, then notice when one of the lords don't return to vassalage I just assume they are fighting some war, only to suddenly notice they have the empire shield on their flag and are in fact independent kings (empire level title). No notification given. I can royal claim war them at this point, and if I win the war they lose the King title, but remain independent. To get them to submit, I have to wait for the truce to expire and then war them again and win, or if a civil war happens before then they will simply not be involved, but then get vassalized automatically after the war is over. If the latter happens, then during the next civil war to occur, they remain my vassal and get no event independence, which lets me control their troops myself. After a civil war in which that happens, they finally start working normally again... until the next time they mysteriously crown themselves again. Kinda irritating and doesn't seem to be how it is supposed to work, especially when if they declare an independence war and name themselves kings during that war, they become my vassal again and lord paramounts again if I win.

2) Vassals randomly switch lieges sometimes. A count of mine or one of my Lord Paramounts will suddenly become the vassal of another lord paramount, which if happens enough over time really messes up the dejure regions of the lord paramounts. I dunno if this is from the vassals supporting a different side in a civil war or something, it's just kinda odd when, for example, after a civil war one of my dukes(who was against me) is suddenly the vassal of the Reach (who supported me in the war) after the war ends, taking a fourth of the crownlands with him with no explanation.

3) Changing crown laws is extremely hard, in fact I've never succeeded at it. I don't mind it being a challenge, but it looks like changing any of the laws that get voted on is almost impossible. Of the two or three good kings that everyone liked relatively enough, I never mustered more than like 190 out of 900 votes after 30+ years since starting the process. This was especially crippling when my insane king got deposed in favor of his insane son, lowering my crown authority to autonomous vassals. Not being able to assign commanders, for the rest of my game, is really crippling. Also, since I followed the proud tradition of wedding my brothers to my sisters, all my children were always hated by the high septon, so I only managed to get him to crown one of the descendents of my dynasty founder. Attempting to lower his authority was similarly futile, so the High Septons generally spent their time gathering support for attempted overthrows of my king, one after the other. I guess this is just a vanilla limitation that just sucks, since I really don't know what to do about it other than spam feasts every year.

4) Wildfire seems useless. I can build up a stockpile of it, but I cant figure out how I am actually allowed to use it. Early in my play through during the first of many attempts by a high septon to overthrow me, I had an intrigue decision to use it against the besiegers of King's Landing. It was only a meager stockpile, so when I did use it, I saw no discernible effect. Do I need troops fighting them or something when I use it? I've never had the decision appear again under subsequent similar circumstances no matter the size of my stockpile, nor under any circumstances in fact. 50 years later under a different king I once got an event asking if I wanted to transport some wildfire to a siege I was conducting. Since the defenders had only a couple hundred against my twenty thousand I declined the offer. Finally an accident some years later caused my stockpile to explode, setting King's Landing on fire during the civil war that deposed my sitting king. Other than those three instances the stuff has been totally useless. I still build up the stockpiles though, if only for rp purposes since I can never use it.

5) The heir educated with foreign culture penalty is really harsh. Why should letting my grand maester (a crownlander I think) tutor my son (High Valarwhatever) drop all my vassals opinion of me by 25, thus sparking a civil war (started by the high septon of course) to dethrone my king, and giving the north an opportunity to declare independence war at the same time. I suppose it's there to combat some kind of exploit, but for me it seems nonsensical, especially since it seems culture changing doesn't actually happen as a result of the tutaledge like it can in vanilla ck2. At least it never has playing this mod in my experience. On a tangent, how does child education even work? I know about choosing their education, so I would educate my sons in martial education, and send them to my best knights and strategists, and they all invariably came back incompetent warriors. Even the sane children lol.

I have had fun, even almost hatched a dragon, but well the king ended up burning to death instead :eek: . But, I might set it aside for now, I dunno. Is this stuff common?
 
I assume that you are playing the 0.6 version of the mod.

2) I don't know about vassals switching lieges randomly, but I do know that as King, you'll want to ensure that you are not holding onto bannermen (vassals) which de jure belong to your LPs. Every vassal you're withholding from your LPs is a -25 to opinion, and the value is higher if the LP is Ambitious. As Aegon VI, after subjugating Euron Greyjoy, I returned 4 vassals which were de jure his. His opinion went from -100 to -10+. Once you've settled your LPs' de jure issues, you can consider transferring vassalage of lords to their de jure high lords. But, the Crownlands is tricky as you cannot form the title if you're King of the Iron Throne.

5) Well, even in vanilla CK 2, you should always be educating your own heir yourself, so as to influence the outcome of events. Military education and sword fighting are two different areas. Military education affects your combat tactics, while sword fighting affects your chances in duels (and tourneys, I suspect). To level your heir's swordfighting, use your marshall's "train children" function, or force them to train (with risks of getting wounded or maimed).

As for hatching dragons, since you're a Blackfyre and have King's Landing, you'll need to raise a small stack of troops and visit the following places in Westeros for dragonlore:

a) Dragonstone: Seat of Aegon I before the Conquest, Dragonstone is traditionally held by the heir to the Iron Throne.
b) Oldtown: Home of the Maesters. The knowledge within will help your attempts at hatching dragons.
c) Harrenhal: One of the many sites where the dragons of the Conquest did their stuff.

Being a dragonrider helps to stablise the realm, so do get that dragon.
 
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I assume that you are playing the 0.6 version of the mod.

2) I don't know about vassals switching lieges randomly, but I do know that as King, you'll want to ensure that you are not holding onto high lords (dukes) which de jure belong to your LPs. Every high lords you're withholding from your LPs is a -25 to opinion, and the value is higher if the LP is Ambitious. As Aegon VI, after subjugating Euron Greyjoy, I returned 4 vassals which were de jure his. His opinion went from -100 to -10+. Once you've settled your LPs' de jure issues, you can consider transferring vassalage of lords to their de jure high lords. But, the Crownlands is tricky as you cannot form the title if you're King of the Iron Throne.

5) Well, even in vanilla CK 2, you should always be educating your own heir yourself, so as to influence the outcome of events. Military education and sword fighting are two different areas. Military education affects your combat tactics, while sword fighting affects your chances in duels (and tourneys, I suspect). To level your heir's swordfighting, use your marshall's "train children" function, or force them to train (with risks of getting wounded or maimed).

As for hatching dragons, since you're a Blackfyre and have King's Landing, you'll need to raise a small stack of troops and visit the following places in Westeros for dragonlore:

a) Dragonstone: Seat of Aegon I before the Conquest, Dragonstone is traditionally held by the heir to the Iron Throne.
b) Oldtown: Home of the Maesters. The knowledge within will help your attempts at hatching dragons.
c) Harrenhal: One of the many sites where the dragons of the Conquest did their stuff.

Being a dragonrider helps to stablise the realm, so do get that dragon.

You can visit Hammerhall (Reach) for the Field of Fire input too in Westeros.

Volantis, Asshai, Old Ghis in essos give inputs too.

Greetings.
 
Oh, so Hammerhall is where the Field of Fire took place. Always wanted to know that.

The locations in Essos are a bit far, and since OP is a Blackfyre and has the dragonpit at Kings Landing, the locations in Westeros alone should be enough.
 
Learning matters for the education traits, that's all I know.
 
1) Lord Paramounts sometimes during mega civil wars simply name themselves Kings of their lands for no reason I can tell......
This is definitely not intended behaviour, do you have any saves from when this happened? Preferabally from just before these characters declared themselves Kings?

2) Vassals randomly switch lieges sometimes. A count of mine or one of my Lord Paramounts will suddenly become the vassal of another lord paramount, which if happens enough over time really messes up the dejure regions of the lord paramounts. I dunno if this is from the vassals supporting a different side in a civil war or something, it's just kinda odd when, for example, after a civil war one of my dukes(who was against me) is suddenly the vassal of the Reach (who supported me in the war) after the war ends, taking a fourth of the crownlands with him with no explanation.
Again, do you have a save from when this happened please?

3) Changing crown laws is extremely hard, in fact I've never succeeded at it......
Yeah this is a vanilla limitation, the voting process on crown laws is completely hardcoded. The King on the Iron Throne needs to be pretty much universally liked to change important laws.

4) Wildfire seems useless. I can build up a stockpile of it, but I cant figure out how I am actually allowed to use it. Early in my play through during the first of many attempts by a high septon to overthrow me, I had an intrigue decision to use it against the besiegers of King's Landing. It was only a meager stockpile, so when I did use it, I saw no discernible effect. Do I need troops fighting them or something when I use it? I've never had the decision appear again under subsequent similar circumstances no matter the size of my stockpile, nor under any circumstances in fact. 50 years later under a different king I once got an event asking if I wanted to transport some wildfire to a siege I was conducting. Since the defenders had only a couple hundred against my twenty thousand I declined the offer. Finally an accident some years later caused my stockpile to explode, setting King's Landing on fire during the civil war that deposed my sitting king. Other than those three instances the stuff has been totally useless. I still build up the stockpiles though, if only for rp purposes since I can never use it.
Wildfire was added many many months ago when the mod first started, and I've never used it myself. So will take another look at it and see if it needs revising.

5) The heir educated with foreign culture penalty is really harsh. Why should letting my grand maester (a crownlander I think) tutor my son (High Valarwhatever) drop all my vassals opinion of me by 25, thus sparking a civil war (started by the high septon of course) to dethrone my king, and giving the north an opportunity to declare independence war at the same time. I suppose it's there to combat some kind of exploit, but for me it seems nonsensical, especially since it seems culture changing doesn't actually happen as a result of the tutaledge like it can in vanilla ck2. At least it never has playing this mod in my experience.
The foreign heir culture modifier is hardcoded I'm afraid, I agree it is a bit silly that vassals of a different culture would hate you for having your heir tutored by another culture. Will reduce it.

On a tangent, how does child education even work? I know about choosing their education, so I would educate my sons in martial education, and send them to my best knights and strategists, and they all invariably came back incompetent warriors. Even the sane children lol.
The tier of education trait is based on the child's learning at age 15.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the report!
 
Yes I do, or at least I hope they will be of use. I haven't played since I made my post so they are mostly autosaves. I dont usually upload files so I hope this works/is okay:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/iayatsojgdodeee/Saves%20regarding%20spotaneous%20Kingships%20AGOTmod.7z

Sorting them by date modified would probably be best, as I didn't want to tamper with the saves in any way. The 8284 save shows everyone in their respectively proper place relatively speaking, before the latest batch of civil wars and the kings untimely hatching attempt death. Olderautosave jumps ahead to 8289, with me having recently crushd another depose king war. Note that the north is a Kingdom, fighting me for it's independence, that the vale is an independent kingdom without having gone to war with me as I mentioned in the op, and that Dorne is just hanging aorung being neutral. Oldautosave a year later (8290) shows my victory over the north, and that the kingdom of the vale is still independent although they have some domestic issues, and are fighting the Riverlands which are still independent as a result yet not a kingdom. Dorne is still an independent Lord Paramount due to I assume some internal conflicts. Autosave in 8291 now has Dorne as a Independent Kingdom at war with no one with no war or mod specific notification occurring in the year between those two autosaves, the Vale still same as before. Lastly the save where I noticed what had happened (yet again, the Iron Islands and the Riverlands have had this occur with them but I doubt I have saves timed as well for them as these saves), Vale is fighting yet another war with the Riverlands, and Dorne is having internal troubles, but still an independent kingdom.

As for the vassals changing, my apologies, looking at them in the saves it looks like they were just inheritances which, due to their timing and the bugs with the kingdoms, caused me to make a presumptuous assumption, my bad. Lotsa vassals get killed in these wars lol.

Edit: Oh if your reducing the heir tutor penalty, you might also reduce the heir tutalage bonus you get with vassals that are the same culture as the tutor, for balance. +25 or +30 opinion for "proper education for heir (lol)" if I recall correctly.

Edit2: Also, my checksum is QHKC
 
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Mmm the same thing happens to me also. I have a the Iron Throne, and when I go to war for whatever reason, the whole empire declares independent and splits apart.

That is normal as far as I understand, what I'm talking about is during the course of a civil war, or right after it, former vassals just make themselves kings, like by creating the title via vanilla mechanics or something.
 
No I think it is the same thing. They don't like become independent and attack me, they just go completely independent. After the war is over they either randomly rejoin or I have to war them back in(Sometimes it will tell me I don't have a claim on them either after they leave!). There is no point of having an empire if the whole thing falls apart when I invade a tiny pirate island. :)
 
This happened in a game of mine as well, though that happened on an earlier edition of the mod. I reloaded the game and figured out someway to keep the vassal from claiming the kingdom (of the north, iirc) but I can't remember how exactly I did that.
 
Yes I do, or at least I hope they will be of use. I haven't played since I made my post so they are mostly autosaves. I dont usually upload files so I hope this works/is okay:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/iayatsojgdodeee/Saves%20regarding%20spotaneous%20Kingships%20AGOTmod.7z

Sorting them by date modified would probably be best, as I didn't want to tamper with the saves in any way. The 8284 save shows everyone in their respectively proper place relatively speaking, before the latest batch of civil wars and the kings untimely hatching attempt death. Olderautosave jumps ahead to 8289, with me having recently crushd another depose king war. Note that the north is a Kingdom, fighting me for it's independence, that the vale is an independent kingdom without having gone to war with me as I mentioned in the op, and that Dorne is just hanging aorung being neutral. Oldautosave a year later (8290) shows my victory over the north, and that the kingdom of the vale is still independent although they have some domestic issues, and are fighting the Riverlands which are still independent as a result yet not a kingdom. Dorne is still an independent Lord Paramount due to I assume some internal conflicts. Autosave in 8291 now has Dorne as a Independent Kingdom at war with no one with no war or mod specific notification occurring in the year between those two autosaves, the Vale still same as before. Lastly the save where I noticed what had happened (yet again, the Iron Islands and the Riverlands have had this occur with them but I doubt I have saves timed as well for them as these saves), Vale is fighting yet another war with the Riverlands, and Dorne is having internal troubles, but still an independent kingdom.

As for the vassals changing, my apologies, looking at them in the saves it looks like they were just inheritances which, due to their timing and the bugs with the kingdoms, caused me to make a presumptuous assumption, my bad. Lotsa vassals get killed in these wars lol.

Edit: Oh if your reducing the heir tutor penalty, you might also reduce the heir tutalage bonus you get with vassals that are the same culture as the tutor, for balance. +25 or +30 opinion for "proper education for heir (lol)" if I recall correctly.

Edit2: Also, my checksum is QHKC
Thanks very much! I've found that at the start of a civil war there is a one day delay between a Lord Paramount becoming 'independent' and their title being flagged as part of the Iron Throne. So for one day the decision to crown yourself King becomes available. This has been fixed for the next update.

No I think it is the same thing. They don't like become independent and attack me, they just go completely independent. After the war is over they either randomly rejoin or I have to war them back in(Sometimes it will tell me I don't have a claim on them either after they leave!). There is no point of having an empire if the whole thing falls apart when I invade a tiny pirate island. :)
This is WAD, being part of the mega war system. i recommend you read the section on it in the manual: http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum...-FAQ-Screenshots-Manual-amp-other-information
 
Them becoming randomly independent is not (or at least should not) be part of the megawar system. The only way they should go free is if they win their independence on the battlefield... or if the Iron Throne collapses.
 
Sometimes it takes a while for the LPs to fold back into the crown. Mostly I think the megawar system works and it's better than vanilla where the HRE can just insta-summon 70k troops.

One thing that does bug me is the slimy Essos rulers who declare a slave raid on a LP during a war. The war takes forever to end because neither side uses its ships effectively (if they even have them) and the slave-raiders seem to be very stubborn even if their entire armies get wiped out. I wish this could be toned down a bit somehow.
 
Thanks very much! I've found that at the start of a civil war there is a one day delay between a Lord Paramount becoming 'independent' and their title being flagged as part of the Iron Throne. So for one day the decision to crown yourself King becomes available. This has been fixed for the next update.

Oh, your welcome! I'm glad I could help. :)
 
Sometimes it takes a while for the LPs to fold back into the crown. Mostly I think the megawar system works and it's better than vanilla where the HRE can just insta-summon 70k troops.

One thing that does bug me is the slimy Essos rulers who declare a slave raid on a LP during a war. The war takes forever to end because neither side uses its ships effectively (if they even have them) and the slave-raiders seem to be very stubborn even if their entire armies get wiped out. I wish this could be toned down a bit somehow.

Yeah, you basically have to wait for the warscore to hit 100%.

Also, the megawar system allows the King to press claims on the various LPs, if they choose not to help the King (no "allies in another war") and the King has the required CB.
 
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Another problem that seems to come up with megawars is when an independent LP tries to press his claim on another LP, who currently is a vassal. He properly attacks the LP's liege, but this triggers a megawar, which promptly splits the kingdom. As the king no longer has the contested county, the war immediately ends and the kingdom reassembles. This can happen every several months.