It's time for a Paradox sports management sim

[forcefieldkid]

A long time ago I read an interview on Rock, Paper, Shotgun with a developer at Paradox discussing their love for old school football management sim games and their desire to do one themselves.

The details and names of which are long since forgotten but I am here to say, it's time!

Sports Interactive release essentially the same game every year, Football Manager. And while it's not a bad game by any means, it is just going through the motions at this point, mostly because of lack of any competition in the same space, in my opinion.

Paradox could REALLY shake things up.

Using the intention and depth of systems and mechanics that PDX is renowned for, we could see a true competitor to the age old franchise, with fresh ideas, better interface and more character than SI currently offers. In fact I think an awesome idea would be to head to a specific time period, perhaps even the years of the birth of professional football itself, with accompanying sepia portraits and immersive UI .

*drools*

It's time, pdx, it's time! We've had crusades, world wars, space exploration and the Renaissance.. Not to mention cities, Mars, mechs etc etc from the publishing arm. Time is right to jump into the sports strategy world.

 

[elektrizikekswerk]

meh.

 

[ozmono2005]

Lots of things I'd like to see paradox do.
I'd certainly take interest in them doing a football manager game.
You aren't wrong that sega needs some competition.
Historical leagues and starts are cool, OOTP does it for their baseball game.

So I agree I guess.

 

[forcefieldkid]

Lots of things I'd like to see paradox do.
I'd certainly take interest in them doing a football manager game.
You aren't wrong that sega needs some competition.
Historical leagues and starts are cool, OOTP does it for their baseball game.

So I agree I guess.

I like OOTP and messed around with custom leagues on their 18 version but sadly I'm not enough of a baseball aficionado to get the most out of it, and historical or not the game tends to just end up being a stats simulator after a point... I get that's one of the draws of the sport for its fans. There just isn't enough character to set apart historical leagues from modern, if you don't know the sport it looks the same.

Can you just imagine it with Paradox flair for history, artwork, UI and events.. I'd play a cricket Sim if they did it and Lord knows I can not stand to watch that.

 

[Mark_W]

Not saying I wouldn't be hugely interested to see what they came up with, or that I wouldn't buy it. But not sure why you'd want Paradox to be dedicating resources to making a Football Management game when Football Manager is fantastic. They may not make huge changes each year, but Football Manager is an already brilliant game that is incrementally improved year on year. SI don't NEED competition, and it'd surely be a waste of Paradox's time and resources to try to provide it?

I'd much rather see the time dedicated to Paradox improving current, and creating new, Grand Strategy games (A Cold War game? A modern day Grand Strategy game? A WW1 game?) than attempting to compete with a series that I imagine it would be almost impossible for Paradox to compete with critically or commercially.

 

[forcefieldkid]

Not saying I wouldn't be hugely interested to see what they came up with, or that I wouldn't buy it. But not sure why you'd want Paradox to be dedicating resources to making a Football Management game when Football Manager is fantastic. They may not make huge changes each year, but Football Manager is an already brilliant game that is incrementally improved year on year. SI don't NEED competition, and it'd surely be a waste of Paradox's time and resources to try to provide it?

I'd much rather see the time dedicated to Paradox improving current, and creating new, Grand Strategy games (A Cold War game? A modern day Grand Strategy game? A WW1 game?) than attempting to compete with a series that I imagine it would be almost impossible for Paradox to compete with critically or commercially.

I just don't agree with your initial paragraph, but if you see Football Manager currently as a fantastic game, I'm not really keen on arguing the point. I think it's a GOOD game, and I've been playing the series on and off for the majority of my life, going back to childhood games of Champ Manager 92/93 when I was 10 years old.

There are parts of the game that they are unwilling to invest effort into radically improving, the match engine and media immersion as examples, and for me that is directly related to having no competition.

I take your points generally regarding a potential Paradox entry, but what I see Pdx bring able to do is not just offer a unique alternative but to offer a high quality one that can grab attention.

I'll be interested in whatever they offer next, but I can't help thinking what they could do with the genre, how amazing a sports title that focuses on a specific period of history could be with them at the helm.

And frankly, though you may not be aware or active in the FM community, which is fair enough, haha.. There is a sizable swell of discontent at SI's barely noticeable year on year changes, and has been for some time a longing for a competitor. So in that front, I think it could be viable. It's not a sentiment that comes from me alone.

 

[Admiral_Obvious]

I'm just waiting for paradox to make a game where Cricket can world conquest US Football off the face of the planet.

If I can get Tanu Tuva to take over the world, why can't I make Cricket the obviously superior sport (that I know nothing about).

 

[ozmono2005]

I'm just waiting for paradox to make a game where Cricket can world conquest US Football off the face of the planet.

If I can get Tanu Tuva to take over the world, why can't I make Cricket the obviously superior sport (that I know nothing about).

Multiple sports simulation that competed for hearts and minds sounds cool too. Maybe where you played as the head of a sports organisation like FIFA and had to invest in youth, promote the game and so on. Might be a bit unfeasible or consequently if not a bit too niche to take the time to make awesome though. Not sure, uncharted waters.

Yes I realized I was responding to satire but stand by addressing it as I did

 

[loup99]

I personally wouldn't buy a such game, and it would be the first one I skip altogether amongst the recent games. As much as I love PDS, I'm completely uninterested in sports management, and would prefer them to focus on strategy. This seems to be more of a suggestion for the PI publishing, because the development studio branching out to sports when Victoria 3 or Rome 2 don't exist would feel strange. Note that I'm biased in that I'm completely apathetic to football and never had any interest in it.

 

[Woifee]

Sportsmanager? Sure. But not Soccer or Basketball. How about Armored Combat.

 

[Will Steel]

I would love to see a spreadsheet-based sports management sim from Paradox...but that is unlikely.

Primarily, because Paradox will have to spend many years conducting very large-scale research, and then build an enormous database of players, stats, teams and everything involved.

There is a reason only a few companies are building these kind of games usually. And they have ties and licenses from real teams.

 

[mergele]

Sportsmanager? Sure. But not Soccer or Basketball. How about Armored Combat.

And then we can have a Girls and Panzer mod. YES!

 

[forcefieldkid]

I would love to see a spreadsheet-based sports management sim from Paradox...but that is unlikely.

Primarily, because Paradox will have to spend many years conducting very large-scale research, and then build an enormous database of players, stats, teams and everything involved.

There is a reason only a few companies are building these kind of games usually. And they have ties and licenses from real teams.

OOTP Developments is a tiny team, and they have managed to put together a very strong series of games. They went on to gain licenses from MLB and NHL respectively, but that was on the strength of the product, they didn't begin with those licenses.

 

[Woifee]

And then we can have a Girls and Panzer mod. YES!

There are girls doing this sport. And they are good.

 

[mergele]

There are girls doing this sport. And they are good.

Oh, actually took a look at the vid and am dissapointed. Just read armoured combat and though about https://anidb.net/perl-bin/animedb.pl?show=anime&aid=9227

 

[bcw2311]

This morning I was lying awake with loads of ideas going through my head about how I'd improve Football Manager, and how SI could learn from Paradox's level of immersion. (To clarify - I couldn't get back to sleep and this is what I started thinking about, this wasn't what was keeping me awake!!). I looked on these forums to see if there was any discussion about ideas for game development (outside of the established titles), so it made me quite happy to find this and see someone thinking the same

I've been playing the series on and off for the majority of my life, going back to childhood games of Champ Manager 92/93 when I was 10 years old

Clearly we're quite a similar age, and I assume that you're also longing for something a bit more simple, enjoyable, and which doesn't take a lifetime to complete one season?

But not sure why you'd want Paradox to be dedicating resources to making a Football Management game when Football Manager is fantastic. They may not make huge changes each year, but Football Manager is an already brilliant game that is incrementally improved year on year. SI don't NEED competition, and it'd surely be a waste of Paradox's time and resources to try to provide it?

Like the OP, I'm afraid I just can't agree with this. Admittedly the last version I've played was FM13, which was the first or second version with the 3D match engine, but ever since then this seems to be the focus of their attention. Every year, the game is released with more and more player motions, yet for me this is not what the game is about. As for things like Facebook and Twitter posts...

For me, the series was best from CM97/98 through to CM99/00, and up to FM05 - as there was an increasing amount of detail and things to think about, but not so much that it took forever to complete a few seasons. I appreciate that SI have now tried to accommodate those of us longing for a time when life was a little simpler, through Classic / Touch, but there seems to be such a focus on "realism" that there is no longer a huge amount of character in the game, or variety between save games (i.e. Man City will always still be top dog after 20 / 30 years).

And it is this character that has made me fall in in love with CK2 in the past couple of years. Being able to groom an heir, give them different characteristics, seeing dynasties rise and fall, huge variety of start dates, and very different playing styles depending on the government and religion you are. Aside from different budgets and availability of players, is there that much difference in the game experience between managing Woking or Chelsea on FM? Even though one is part-time and strapped for cash, the other run by a multi-billionaire? I wouldn't say so.

I'd much rather see the time dedicated to Paradox improving current, and creating new, Grand Strategy games (A Cold War game? A modern day Grand Strategy game? A WW1 game?) than attempting to compete with a series that I imagine it would be almost impossible for Paradox to compete with critically or commercially.

Primarily, because Paradox will have to spend many years conducting very large-scale research, and then build an enormous database of players, stats, teams and everything involved.

There is a reason only a few companies are building these kind of games usually. And they have ties and licenses from real teams.

And, IMO, herein lie the barriers to entry, namely that this would be outside Paradox's scope of expertise and the market is already crowded by some very big players with huge budgets. So committing large budgets and resources to a football, or other sport, management sim would be a big risk.

That being said, if Paradox or anyone else are looking to develop an FM style game and want ideas for how to differentiate it from existing products, I'd be very interested and have got plenty of ideas

 

[forcefieldkid]

This morning I was lying awake with loads of ideas going through my head about how I'd improve Football Manager, and how SI could learn from Paradox's level of immersion. (To clarify - I couldn't get back to sleep and this is what I started thinking about, this wasn't what was keeping me awake!!). I looked on these forums to see if there was any discussion about ideas for game development (outside of the established titles), so it made me quite happy to find this and see someone thinking the same



Clearly we're quite a similar age, and I assume that you're also longing for something a bit more simple, enjoyable, and which doesn't take a lifetime to complete one season?



Like the OP, I'm afraid I just can't agree with this. Admittedly the last version I've played was FM13, which was the first or second version with the 3D match engine, but ever since then this seems to be the focus of their attention. Every year, the game is released with more and more player motions, yet for me this is not what the game is about. As for things like Facebook and Twitter posts...

For me, the series was best from CM97/98 through to CM99/00, and up to FM05 - as there was an increasing amount of detail and things to think about, but not so much that it took forever to complete a few seasons. I appreciate that SI have now tried to accommodate those of us longing for a time when life was a little simpler, through Classic / Touch, but there seems to be such a focus on "realism" that there is no longer a huge amount of character in the game, or variety between save games (i.e. Man City will always still be top dog after 20 / 30 years).

And it is this character that has made me fall in in love with CK2 in the past couple of years. Being able to groom an heir, give them different characteristics, seeing dynasties rise and fall, huge variety of start dates, and very different playing styles depending on the government and religion you are. Aside from different budgets and availability of players, is there that much difference in the game experience between managing Woking or Chelsea on FM? Even though one is part-time and strapped for cash, the other run by a multi-billionaire? I wouldn't say so.





And, IMO, herein lie the barriers to entry, namely that this would be outside Paradox's scope of expertise and the market is already crowded by some very big players with huge budgets. So committing large budgets and resources to a football, or other sport, management sim would be a big risk.

That being said, if Paradox or anyone else are looking to develop an FM style game and want ideas for how to differentiate it from existing products, I'd be very interested and have got plenty of ideas

Nice to see I'm not on an island surrounded by sports haters after all

Out of interest, when you say the market is already crowded with big players, who exactly are you referring to?

I can only assume you're talking about EA and 2K etc. In the sports Sim world.. But from my experience, they are two totally different markets.

Also, funnily enough it was playing CK2 that got me thinking about this as well, picking my council and commanders, comparing stats and traits, trying different combinations... It really brought to mind the mechanics of FM.

 

[grandad1982]

Football? Don't care. Pro cycling (mtb and road) yes please!

 

[Aepdneds]

Pro Cycling would require license deals with the pharmaceutical industry so that Paradox would be allowed to use the brand names of the doping agents, else it wouldn't feel right.

 

[caedussl]

I think it would make more sense for Paradox to buy one of the studios doing sports sims. If they were going to do one themselves, it makes more sense to do one where there really isn’t any kind of competition, so not football and not hockey. Which as far as commercially viable sports sim genres, are probably the only ones Swedes would be interested in developing.