Has anyone tried hitting the US Pacific Fleet (Pearl or LA) in port with a sizeable air attack? I'm really curious if a pre-emptive strike is a effective.
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Pearl Harbor
Try massing whole fleet, especially ALL carriers. Load up carriers with torpedoe planes and naval bombers, plus 1 fighter. US starts war with limited air defence so keep attacking pearl (naval bombing option) until you do some damage. US also only has 2 infantry divisions with no coastal defence constructed yet so if you want to invade it is very possible (use marines). Thats a big fleet in Pearl so you will take losses when they finally sortie out to meet the threat. The main problem is your oil reserve, keep an eye on oil icon because your fleet may struggle if it runs low to fast. If you take Pearl, reinforce it and build coastal defence and watch out for atlantic fleet transfering to California. You may want to post subs or destroyers near Panama canal to scout. I have taken the canal but found it hard to keep, AI really tries hard to get it back because of its straregic importance. GOOD LUCK!!
Try massing whole fleet, especially ALL carriers. Load up carriers with torpedoe planes and naval bombers, plus 1 fighter. US starts war with limited air defence so keep attacking pearl (naval bombing option) until you do some damage. US also only has 2 infantry divisions with no coastal defence constructed yet so if you want to invade it is very possible (use marines). Thats a big fleet in Pearl so you will take losses when they finally sortie out to meet the threat. The main problem is your oil reserve, keep an eye on oil icon because your fleet may struggle if it runs low to fast. If you take Pearl, reinforce it and build coastal defence and watch out for atlantic fleet transfering to California. You may want to post subs or destroyers near Panama canal to scout. I have taken the canal but found it hard to keep, AI really tries hard to get it back because of its straregic importance. GOOD LUCK!!
Did the job
My attack was effective enough, the real damage was done in the surface battle. Jap naval techs are good in '41 so its do or die, if you wait too long ('42-43) you could be in trouble. Bring your subs along too, maybe split into 2 forces, one to pick off stragglers.
My attack was effective enough, the real damage was done in the surface battle. Jap naval techs are good in '41 so its do or die, if you wait too long ('42-43) you could be in trouble. Bring your subs along too, maybe split into 2 forces, one to pick off stragglers.
oh, ok - I'm really looking to see if anyone has had a successful "port" attack not a naval battle
I've tried Naval Bombers and Torps. Attacked 3 times to simulate actual raid and retreated.
All i did was annoy the Yanks.
All i did was annoy the Yanks.
Hmm, I had submarines attacked by a couple naval bombers in port and suffered heavy losses. I wonder what the right combination is? My curiousity stems from the fact that if (as Japan or I suppose Germany) you can force a fleet into drydock it will give you a several month window of advantage on the high seas in exchange for bringing USA into the war.
Personally (and unfortunately) I find impossible to use planes in a namal bombardment with the same efficiency showed in real WWII. Actually, with HoI 1.03b, it in not possible to simulate a so heavy end efficient naval bombardment like the one made in Pearl Harbour: planes are not able to destroy entirely an enemy fleet... and I confess that it's really sad!
There is also the fact that when there are a number of ships in a stack, each ship has an equal chance of being targeted by a plane, where in WWII planes sought after battleships and carriers.
True, Bigglesworth, HOI should include a priority list to the Naval attacks..target BBs..or CVs...etc...
Though it would be useless...to target CVs...if they still dont rule the waves.....
Though it would be useless...to target CVs...if they still dont rule the waves.....
Surprise
The truth is that the only reason that the japs did so well at Pearl Harbor was that the US was not at war yet. If the Japs had declared war first the US would have had combat air patrol, recon flights, subs posted and the fleet would have been at least partially sortied out of the harbor. The only harbor attack I can recall having great success was at Taranto when the Brits attacked the Italian fleet with great success.
If the Japanese player somehow can get Naval Bomber, torpedoe plane org and techs high enough and gather all his carriers in one fleet then he can inflict damage but probably not the same as what happened in real life. By the way, those ships in Pearl that were damaged should have a strength of maybe 4 or 5, not 40 or 50. Some of the battleships a t Pearl were blasted pretty bad and weren't ready for combat for like 2 years. In HOI I can have all of them back on line in about 4 months, not realistic at all.
The truth is that the only reason that the japs did so well at Pearl Harbor was that the US was not at war yet. If the Japs had declared war first the US would have had combat air patrol, recon flights, subs posted and the fleet would have been at least partially sortied out of the harbor. The only harbor attack I can recall having great success was at Taranto when the Brits attacked the Italian fleet with great success.
If the Japanese player somehow can get Naval Bomber, torpedoe plane org and techs high enough and gather all his carriers in one fleet then he can inflict damage but probably not the same as what happened in real life. By the way, those ships in Pearl that were damaged should have a strength of maybe 4 or 5, not 40 or 50. Some of the battleships a t Pearl were blasted pretty bad and weren't ready for combat for like 2 years. In HOI I can have all of them back on line in about 4 months, not realistic at all.
Agreed. The positioning of the battleships, the airplanes lined up in rows on the airfields - all to defend against sabotage not air attack. I still think in a harbor its a lot easier to hit an enemy than when a ship is steaming full out in the open sea... but the CAP, etc.. is valid.
although...
What if the port has no airplanes? hence no CAP? I think the weakeness of air attack (on navy anyway) needs to be strengthened. Maybe this is the better question...
What have people encountered when using (improved) carrier attack forces (i.e. 2-4 planes per carrier)? Do carriers start to become the dominant vessel then?
improved carrier
Can an improved carrier carry more squadrons than basic or pre-war carrier? It makes sense, more elevators and larger size incresed space and efficiency.
I think the number of AA at the province of the harbor(if any) does contribute to the defense of ships in port vs. naval attack, but I can only assume that the ships air defence is the same in port as it is while out to sea. I always build coastal defence and AA at midway, wake, and Pearl when I have the US in case the AI actually tries to take them. The few times the AI Japs took Wake or Midway was when I was so involved in Europe that i ignored the whole Pacific theatre. It is tough to focus on both europe and the Japs at the same time. I know that I have to get involved in Europe or The Russians get overrun and its tough to make any headway in Europe. It seems that Spain is almost always axis by early 1942, and sometimes Portugal. That makes it difficult to repeat or improve on history since I have to get Gibraltar back to send fleets to Med.
Can an improved carrier carry more squadrons than basic or pre-war carrier? It makes sense, more elevators and larger size incresed space and efficiency.
I think the number of AA at the province of the harbor(if any) does contribute to the defense of ships in port vs. naval attack, but I can only assume that the ships air defence is the same in port as it is while out to sea. I always build coastal defence and AA at midway, wake, and Pearl when I have the US in case the AI actually tries to take them. The few times the AI Japs took Wake or Midway was when I was so involved in Europe that i ignored the whole Pacific theatre. It is tough to focus on both europe and the Japs at the same time. I know that I have to get involved in Europe or The Russians get overrun and its tough to make any headway in Europe. It seems that Spain is almost always axis by early 1942, and sometimes Portugal. That makes it difficult to repeat or improve on history since I have to get Gibraltar back to send fleets to Med.
Yes. I believe the most advanced type can actually carry 4 air flotillas.
I was thinking about the factors of trying to find a ship at sea, weather, the compactness of ships in port, etc...
(I don't know really - ask me the characteristics of an M-16 or an AKM sure, attack characteristics of an Iowa class battleship, no clue)
carriers
I guess it would be a good idea in HOI to use the plane on your carrier as a scout, if you have nothing going on in another theater and are searching for the enemy fleet. If you have multiple planes I guess the naval bomber has the greatest range. I wonder if HOI can come up with a recon/patrol plane in 1.04. The PBY Catalina had a HUGE range and was invaluable in Pacific and off US coastline (looking for u-boats). I know there is a tech advancement for naval patrol but all that does is increase sub detection( I think). Building the actual plane to search the north atlantic , carribean, and pacific for raiders and fleets would be cool. What do you think? I love all parts of military history, but naval is most interesting. Too bad we can't build seabee battalions in the game to automatically improve infrastructure and IC on captured islands in Pacific (which actually happened). Seabees were usually in 2nd or 3rd wave of invasions and improved beachheads quickly then built airstrips, roads, water and electric utilities, etc. At Iwo Jima we were in first wave but half the battalion was KIA or wounded first day so the building of the B29 airstrip was delayed.
Quick question, what forum can I get on to discuss favorite war movies. I could chat about that all day.....
I guess it would be a good idea in HOI to use the plane on your carrier as a scout, if you have nothing going on in another theater and are searching for the enemy fleet. If you have multiple planes I guess the naval bomber has the greatest range. I wonder if HOI can come up with a recon/patrol plane in 1.04. The PBY Catalina had a HUGE range and was invaluable in Pacific and off US coastline (looking for u-boats). I know there is a tech advancement for naval patrol but all that does is increase sub detection( I think). Building the actual plane to search the north atlantic , carribean, and pacific for raiders and fleets would be cool. What do you think? I love all parts of military history, but naval is most interesting. Too bad we can't build seabee battalions in the game to automatically improve infrastructure and IC on captured islands in Pacific (which actually happened). Seabees were usually in 2nd or 3rd wave of invasions and improved beachheads quickly then built airstrips, roads, water and electric utilities, etc. At Iwo Jima we were in first wave but half the battalion was KIA or wounded first day so the building of the B29 airstrip was delayed.
Quick question, what forum can I get on to discuss favorite war movies. I could chat about that all day.....
Funny you say that. Varak (one of the wAARmonger guys), had been proposing increasing the sighting percentage of carriers to simulate that.
I've thought about that too. Since a division is the smallest unit if you were to implement PBY's it would have to have no combat ability (yes I know they were used to hunt subs in addition to scouting but "1" plane...) OR - you could have a technology that gives you a visual range a couple sea zones from your ports? maybe increasing in success rate depending on a search doctrine?
While improving infrastucture I think is more extensicve than an airfield (i.e. true heavy construction) how about the ability for an engineering battalion to select a "build airbase" option? Say it takes 90 days or something.
These are all programming changes so not much we can do about it
PBY's
Pby's did carry depth charges and were succesful more than afew times against subs when the germans were ravaging shipping off US coast in 42 (operation drumbeat). They carried defensive armament but were so slow they were probably still sitting ducks.
So there naval attack rating should be low, air attack non-existent and air defence low. I believe the Germans and Japs had flying boats also.
I agree with a construction unit not improving IC, but infrastructure improvement what almost guarenteed when a combat engineer or seabee battalion was attatched to a marine division in WWII. I put the suggestion on the forum for suggestions, we'll see.
Pby's did carry depth charges and were succesful more than afew times against subs when the germans were ravaging shipping off US coast in 42 (operation drumbeat). They carried defensive armament but were so slow they were probably still sitting ducks.
So there naval attack rating should be low, air attack non-existent and air defence low. I believe the Germans and Japs had flying boats also.
I agree with a construction unit not improving IC, but infrastructure improvement what almost guarenteed when a combat engineer or seabee battalion was attatched to a marine division in WWII. I put the suggestion on the forum for suggestions, we'll see.
I agree 'individual' PBY's were effective - my point was that 1 or 2 (or 20) pby's in sea zone aren't enough to represent an air flotilla division (which I'm assuming is probably 100 +/- aircraft)
So what we need is a long range aircraft with low attack and defense values. We can give it an automatic 100 org and call it a "transport".