Kriegsmarine

[Hayden]

It's generally known that the Germans had a carrier that was close to completion. While wandering the internet recently, I found an interesting website; http://www.german-navy.de/kriegsmarine/index.html

The beauty of this site is it's extensive reference for active and proposed WWII German vessels. I think the site presents several intriguing concepts, such as the Auxiluary cruisers, Flight Cruisers (hybrid Cruiser-Carrier), and conversion carriers.

Basically, what I'm getting at is using them as possible German special units.

Auxiuluary Cruisers would have limited armaments, no transporter capacity, and low damage sustainability; but very low visibility and low cost.

Flight Cruisers would be a carrier with good combat capabilities, the ability to have an airwing; however, the cost and visibility would be rather prohibitive, and it would be a late war design (perhaps 1942).

Carrier Conversions would be a cheap way to get CAGs in the battle. They would be cheap, with about a year production time, and would have very limited combat capabilities and range. It would also be a late-war weapon.

 

[unmerged(20006)]

I kinda wished some of the wierder warships might be included in the game. Like the Japanese I-400 submarine aircraft carrier or the German Hybrid battleship aircraft carrier.

I guess we are outta luck for now.

 

[JRaup]

One of the biggest limitors is that we can only have 10 models of each unit type. So, alot of the odd ball and specialized models will not be able to be included. We are for the most part limited to mainstream units. Some few of these oddities may make it in, but they will be few and far between.

 

[unmerged(27364)]

Actually, the odd vessel types would be quite interesting, but I believe they where only used or seriously considered by countries who where either incapable nor unwilling to pay the high cost for the standard vessels "aviation cruiser class, submarine carrier class". Besides, how many carrier submarines would you need to have a decent naval air wing with you fleet ?! But on another note, new naval tech should allow some improvement of older vessels. Either way, I know the guys at paradox and the CORE team will create a killer game for us.

 

[MateDow]

Auxiuluary Cruisers would have limited armaments, no transporter capacity, and low damage sustainability; but very low visibility and low cost.

Auxilary cruisers will be in the game. They are basically going to be the most interesting in MP games, but they will also serve as less expensive cruisers but they will have the vulnerability of transports.

Flight Cruisers would be a carrier with good combat capabilities, the ability to have an airwing; however, the cost and visibility would be rather prohibitive, and it would be a late war design (perhaps 1942).

Flight Deck cruisers have been eliminated due to the limitation of 10 models for each class. We are also limited by the fact that there is only one size of CAG. This would make a flight deck cruiser with 24 aircraft the equivilent of a fleet carrier with almost 100 aircraft.

Carrier Conversions would be a cheap way to get CAGs in the battle. They would be cheap, with about a year production time, and would have very limited combat capabilities and range. It would also be a late-war weapon.

Conversion carriers which represent carriers converted from auxiliaries or slower vessels are in the game. These are representative of the US Langley-class or French Bearn-class carriers. There are also the Cruiser Conversion carriers which represent the large carriers converted from canceled battlecruisers. These represent the British Courageous-class and Japanese Akagi-class carriers. You can build them as new builds. Although this is not technically accurate, it is useful.

The aircraft carrying submarines have been eliminated due to the 10 model limit. I would have liked to keep them in there for flavor purposes, but was unable to.

I hope this answers some of your questions. MDow

 

[Hayden]

I appreciate the info, and am quite thankful that Auxiluary cruisers will be included.

 

[Klavo Hunter]

Couldn't you just make a new Brigade type to support Sub-Carriers, and call it a "S-CAG"?

 

[unmerged(27364)]

the problem with another CAG type is keeping the AI using the correct type with the correct carrier type. You could see players using the regular CAG on the aviation cruisers, not a good thing.

 

[MateDow]

Couldn't you just make a new Brigade type to support Sub-Carriers, and call it a "S-CAG"?

We can't add new brigade types. We can add brigade models, but then we either have to accept the use of "house rules" and the honor system and it will also cause the AI to use them incorrectly.

Due to the limit on the number of models, we only have carriers which carry full or at least air groups with more than 60 aircraft. This gives us the advantage of not having to worry about CAG size in terms of aircraft and focus on making the CAGs historical in terms of capability and appearance. MDow

 

[Hayden]

Here's a wild idea. Why not count Hybrids and Sub Carriers as groups ala destroyer groups? Basically, have the carrier cruiser count as 3 (or so) ships, treating them as 3 ships (Cost, damage capability, 100% visibility), but lumped together. The end result would be a very expensive unit with alot of damage potential, but would also be a crippling thing to loose.

The subs would work in a similar manner, just with VERY poor AA (Rely on fighters), much higher visibility than the average sub, and limited offensive capbility, outside of what the fighter group offers.

In this manner, Brigades could remain the same, there would be no need for excessive modification, and we would get our Cruiser/sub carriers

What do you think?

 

[Hayden]

Ok, here's some initial test beds. For the carrier, I modifed it to act like 3 improved cruisers with reduced armament. For the sub, I made it to act as sub-like as possible (Greatly decreased abilities and visibility). It's treated as 3 Longrange Sub Flotilias.


# 9 - Cruiser Carrier
model = {
cost = 27
buildtime = 930
defaultorganisation = 30
morale = 30
manpower = 3
maxspeed = 32
surfacedetectioncapability = 2
airdetectioncapability = 6
subdetectioncapability = 5
visibility = 100
seadefence = 21
airdefence = 9
seaattack = 20
subattack = 1
airattack = 6
shorebombardment = 3
transportcapability = 0

range = 6000
supplyconsumption = 2.5
fuelconsumption = 0
distance = 0.35

# 10 - Sub Carrier
model = {
cost = 15
buildtime = 600
defaultorganisation = 30
morale = 30
manpower = 2
maxspeed = 16
surfacedetectioncapability = 5
airdetectioncapability = 1
subdetectioncapability = 1
visibility = 8
seadefence = 15
airdefence = 12
seaattack = 1
subattack = 1
airattack = 1
shorebombardment = 0
transportcapability = 0

range = 8000
supplyconsumption = 3
fuelconsumption = 1.5
distance = 0.25

Still an early proposal, but I think the case for these is solid, and I think they are a good use of available slots (I mean, what other carriers will we get, the übermegakillemsuperheavy carrier?).

 

[unmerged(36342)]

IJN has a half battership half carrier thing. I think it ends up transporting oil.

 

[Montcalm]

One solution to represent escort carriers would be to take one type of division to represent the carrier and one more type of brigade to represent the weaker air group. The questions resulting from this soultion would be which slot to we take out :
- battlecruiser division type by placing the existing battelcruisers in battleships and heavy cruisers free slots,
-or escort fighter division type if a brigade is reserved tp represent them and attached to strategic and tactical bombers divisions,
- super-heavy armor or light armor brigade slots by placing their values in heavy armor or armored car free slots.

The existing carrier division type could be attached with the existig CAG brigade and the new escort carrier division (to reserve) could
Given the fact that all the land brigades slots seem to be taken, it's more a question to known if you want a land-oriented CORE or a sea/air oriented CORE.

IMHO the solution would be to replace the escort fighter division type, and the superheavy and light armored brigades types, to solve this problem.

 

[Archangel85]

you can't replace escort fighters with escort carriers, they have to be ships.