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First Lieutenant
Feb 2, 2006
271
0
Open up db\misc.txt

Search "_CV_LAND_FORT_DAMAGE_"

Change from 1 to .05 or something like that. Honestly I'm surprised no one has complained about this yet, land forts are destroyed in combat so quickly that Germany could perfectly realistically attack right across the Maginot Line and it would only hold them up a day or so.
 
Well, given the fact that they've altered the stats in the 1.06 Beta, I presume at least someone complained... :rolleyes:
 
Not true - I garrisoned some of the Pacific isles with a garrison, and added land forts, only to find those utterly defeated by Japanese invasion forces...
 
I did some serious testing on this for CORE and recommend a value of 0.2 to 0.3. 0.2 is used in CORE.
 
I dont know where you get this mas notion that you can break through the maginot line as germany.. France like all other AI will stackwhore any province you try to attack, so no it's not possible until you're close to beating the french anyway when their remaining divisions are too busy trying to slow down your other troops. Anything above something like 8 divisions in a lvl 10 fort is unbeatable by any number of divisions.

Here, take a look. This is how i beat the Germans as SU.

23jmixc.png


That line of mine in there is reinforced with lvl 10 forts all the way to Mogilevi Podolski except the ones taken from the balkan countries.
 
Hagar said:
Not true - I garrisoned some of the Pacific isles with a garrison, and added land forts, only to find those utterly defeated by Japanese invasion forces...
Click to expand...

I suppose you meant coastal forts. Land forts are useless against amphibious attacks.
 
Sir Keisari said:
Anything above something like 8 divisions in a lvl 10 fort is unbeatable by any number of divisions.
Click to expand...
Sorry Sir K., but that's not exactly true. Playing FRA with a dozen divisions stacked in Strasbourg (admittedly only a Level 9 fort) the Germans came at me in December 1939. Though I beat them off they attacked repeatedly until March 1940 by which time they had destroyed the fort entirely. Two or three more attacks and they had kicked me out completely. It took them more than a dozen assaults and they suffered horrendous casualties - but they got the job done.

I like your Eastwall though. I've done the same thing myself and it provides a great springboard for counterattacking and encircling exhausted Russian attackers.
 
I also have tried the Ostwall, but realistically, it would not be possible for Germany to build a Maginot-style (level 10 forts) along the Molotov-Ribbentrop border. It took France years and a lot of money! And another thing, the Maginot Line proper was actually only in Lothringen and on the Italian frontier in places, the Rhine defenses were just interlocking MG and AT bunkers, so in game terms all that expenditure was only for two provinces (Metz and Strassburg).

And of course the AI will never build and deploy railway artillery against you, as a human player would, which makes land forts very gamey.
 
Not sure on that, kilo. Stalin was in fact building a much longer fortified line within the original Soviet border and had he stuck with that instead of trying to start all over again in the new territories he might well have had it in some sort of order by the time of Barbarossa. It wouldn't have been a Maginot line, to be sure, but it demonstrates that the boundaries of the possible are often a lot more distant than we tend to think. There's some interesting data on how long it actually took and how much it actually cost to build the Maginot being passed around on the CORE forum at the moment - well worth a look. On your second point:

kilolima said:
And of course the AI will never build and deploy railway artillery against you, as a human player would, which makes land forts very gamey.
Click to expand...

That's true enough; but extend that reasoning. If it's gamey to build forts because the AI won't use RR artillery, then it's gamey to use RR artillery against AI forts, and gamey to mount amphibious invasions against provinces that the AI wouldn't invade, and gamey to make trades that the AI wouldn't make, and gamey to make peace offers that the AI wouldn't offer - you see where I'm going.

Granted the AI doesn't play as smart as a human - well most humans other than me on a bad day - but if that means we have to dumb down in order not to be 'gamey' then there strikes me as being little point in gaming at all. The solution, of course, is to improve the AI and in fact there's an awful lot of progress being made in that direction both in AoD and some of its mods. Until that delivers a more human-like AI I'll console myself with the thought that Guderian was as gamey as all get-out when he did things that the G.Q.G never would have.
 
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valid points Epaminondas.

I still thinks it severely gamey to use units that the AI can't. If you build an level 10 Ostwall the Russian AI has zero chance of getting through. I've been able to hold the line with a handful of firebrigading mech units and watch as the Russian AI bleeds its MP to nothing.

It is gamey to use RR arty yourself against fortifications though I make an exception for siege cities like Lennigrad, Sevestapol, etc., and only one or two units.

The Maginot Line is an order of magnitude greater than anything else in that era. Or since, probably. It just should not be possible to build anything like it in the time span the game encompasses.
 
Well, work on the Maginot was commenced in late 1929 (its major budget allocation being voted in December of that year) and its first generation works (the fort complexes) were pretty much completed by 1935. So we're talking six peace-time years, with the process not being particularly vigourously driven once Maginot left office in 1931, and consistently hampered by the ebb and flow of French national politics and associated industrial dispute. I'm not convinced that with the much greater workforce available, the greater urgency endowed by the war, and the greater control exercised by a very authoritarian government it would not have been possible to produce something comparable along the MR line in the time between MR and Barbarossa - especially if a German player chose to delay Barbarossa. Remember, too, that depending on how well the player conducted his initial offensive he could buy himself an additional year or two before the line was required to be operational.

Makes for interesting speculation at least.
 
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Epaminondas said:
Sorry Sir K., but that's not exactly true. Playing FRA with a dozen divisions stacked in Strasbourg (admittedly only a Level 9 fort) the Germans came at me in December 1939. Though I beat them off they attacked repeatedly until March 1940 by which time they had destroyed the fort entirely. Two or three more attacks and they had kicked me out completely. It took them more than a dozen assaults and they suffered horrendous casualties - but they got the job done.

I like your Eastwall though. I've done the same thing myself and it provides a great springboard for counterattacking and encircling exhausted Russian attackers.
Click to expand...

I was playing as SU there tho. The germans didnt even so much as try to attack any of the fortified provinces. They attacked eastwards only against one occupied province and that i gave to them not to risk the southernmost fortified province. Otherwise the germans didnt have a single offensive victory.
 
Ahhh! Sorry Sir K., I missed that. What you're encountering there is an issue that's been tested recently in CORE. What it seems to boil down to is the fact that the AI is smart enough not to beat it's head against a brick (or reinforced concrete) wall if there are easier options available. So rather than attempting to bull its way through your fortified line it's directed its offensive efforts elsewhere. What you did in leaving an unfortified area was to channel attacks into that region - which is one of the things that fortifications are meant to do. In theory, if there was no other avenue of attack available then the AI should try to break through the fortifications as it did with my Maginot line.
 
Sir Keisari said:
Yes, but they only attacked that one time, didnt try to push onwards. If they had, they might have had more success. When the time came when i pushed south from sweden, they ran out of manpower in less than 2 months, and i hadn't even attacked at the line yet.
Click to expand...

Looks like what you're seeing there, then, is a very stressed AI rather than an invulnerable line of forts. The fact that GER did attack an unfortified province seems to show that the AI was functioning as designed there, but the fact that it didn't then try to exploit from that attack (and the manpower issue) suggests that the GER AI was in some kind of hole. Just looking at the screeny you've supplied, I'd reckon that might have had a lot to do with you getting in behind them and isolating Berlin.

It would be interesting to restart from an appropriate save as Germany and see what the situation looks like from that perspective.
 
Yes, but look at the year. They would have had plenty of time to exploit that hole in the south, which they attacked already in 1941. Unless ofcourse they were already too worn out by france, which would seem kind of ridiculous.

Also, i was way behind my build schedule, that's why the delay. If they had exploited, even with their possible lack of manpower back then, i would have been in trouble.
 
Yeah, that's why I think it would be interesting to start as Germany from a save around that time - just to see what was happening for them. Like you, I can't imagine that it was a carry over from the French campaign, and strategic bombing shouldn't be causing them extensive problems at that time. Just be interesting to know.
 
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