Confirmed Leisure overload (too many taxis & small park visitors)

[nilesism]

Information​

When reporting a crash, stability or performance problems, please use the Report a Crash button on the earlier screen​

[CLICK] I understand

Required​

Summary​

Leisure overload (too many taxis & small park visitors)

Steps to reproduce​

After patch 1.2.5f1 (anniversary) there was a change made to how many visitors each area with entertainment receives.

Some venues get extra. Unfortunately it seems random which venues get more, but from my observation (any or all):

Make a park next to a train station.
Add a cemetery and then add several sub buildings attached to the ROAD and not the main building.
Build a water tower, add the observation deck, then add a small park on the same block.
Add a 2x2 gym within 1 tile of the map edge where there is an outside road connection.
Add a small (2x2 or 2x3) pocket park near a major attraction like the signature observation tower.
Build commercial with Beverages or Recreation and add a few parks nearby.

Dog parks and the small gym seem to get the most ancillary visitors.
Water Tower Observation deck and the vanilla cemetery sub buildings get the most primary visitors.
Parks of any size near a train station are by far the worst

Expected Result​

This change is mostly welcome, many leisure venues now have appropriate foot traffic, inbound car traffic, and get both residents and outside visitors. I welcome the additional traffic to a believable point.

See 1st comment below: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...xis-small-park-visitors.1733787/post-30263094

Actual Result​

It seems like the leisure venues that were the most popular before now have a "halo effect" that spills over to nearby parks. The cims then tend to visit the nearest park as if it were the main attraction. Now, due to this overload, the LeisureSystem is the top Pathfind use of CPU cycles.

It seems to work similar to the air pollution effect. If you have several factories that pollute, the each new one you add MULTIPLIES the air pollution instead of adding to it. In this case, it is like the TRAIN STATION multiplies its own leisure to any SMALL PARK and then causes a rush of cims. So it takes the "5" entertainment effect of the small park and multiplies it by the "50" of the train station, resulting in a small park with 250 entertainment effect.

The result for the player when not near a train station is unmanageable taxi traffic. See photos for examples of back to back lines of taxis and see reddit posts detailing others with this issue.

I also notice that 3,500 businesses have closed since the patch. Many I replaced with offices. Many of those businesses used to provide leisure (Entertainment, Meals, etc). Now they are gone, it feels like the Leisure system is in overdrive, desperate to find a new place for people to go (where before there were many options in local commercial.)

It changes the dynamic of the city if people must newly travel far, especially since it seems they prefer high concentrations of entertainment. On smaller maps, this may draw cims away from a local business to flock to a Cemetery instead.

It also feels like many of these visitors are "dummy" traffic. Some are not residents, not tourists, and just visitors who pop in and out.

Game Version​

1.2.5f1

What mods do you have installed?​

None required. Cim Route Highlighter provides the count and colors for cim travel using multiple modes as seen in screenshots.

Affected Feature​

• Balance
• Gameplay
• Performance

Platform​

• Steam
• Microsoft Store (Xbox)

Additional Information​

Additional Information​

I have documented the problem here:

Most popular place or does AI love dogs?

Hello everyone! Do you like dogs? A new "Dog Activity Park" has opened in my new city: Cars bring Sims from all over the area: We are waiting for everyone! "Dog Activity Park".

forum.paradoxplaza.com

You can try the save file from when the patch was released:

nrr 3 Million - Paradox Mods

Niles’ River Region [nrr] save game with 3 MILLION

mods.paradoxplaza.com

Or the save file after "reset residents/vehicles" and "cleanup obsolete entities" was used (6 months elapsed):

nrr-2948-bug-office-leisure - Paradox Mods

6 months after patch (office-leisure bug)

mods.paradoxplaza.com

Here are other examples:

https://www.reddit.com/r/CitiesSkylines2/comments/1jm1bfq/is_anyone_else_getting_a_taxi_conga_line_at_their

https://www.reddit.com/r/CitiesSkylines2/comments/1jhpnc8/slow_game_speed_lag_15_fps_when_unpaused_a_lot_of

Save Game​

Other Attachments​

 

[nilesism]

Suggested fix:

1) Prioritize walking within 1 tile of map edge, or Prefer BUS from the start instead of transfer

• cims from outside connections should walk in for leisure if they are close by
• currently taxis will drop cims at the nearest bus station only to wait one stop and then walk the rest of the way
• this should be modified so that any outside visitor has a very high weight to walk.
  
  Example: Despite there being a buried pathway at an angle that leads directly to the water tower and the Fries (Meals) venue, I still have taxis dropping people off at the bus stop nearest to the map edge and then cims take one stop to get to the station, then walk.
  
  I realize that some people are coming from an outside connection several tiles away, and this just happens to be the closest bus stop. This is especially odd because both outside connections in that direction have a bus stop that goes to this same station. They are taking a taxi to get to a bus station, even though they could have been on a BUS FROM THE START!
  
  
  
  
  
  

2) Prioritize the next LARGEST attraction near a primary venue, not the NEAREST

• I built a large viewing park across the street from the observation tower (155 inbound), but cims flock instead to the little tiny pocket park slightly closer (819 inbound).
  
  
• I built 2 large campfire sites (6 inbound for the further one 672 for the closer one) and a fun time complex (77 inbound) near the central train station, but cims flock instead to a small 1x2 and 2x2 (4745 inbound) plaza closer.
  
• There should be a ranking of venue preferences (if the main venue is full or the cim wants to do two leisure back to back). Attractiveness does not seem to factor in to the routing.

3) Have a maximum inbound traffic relative to entertainment effect,

• If a small park has 1,000 inbound visitors, it should have 200x the entertainment value (small parks are 1-5).
• If the leisure system has a "cap" or tally that it stores in memory, once a venue receives its inbound cims, it should be taken off the list for a time.
• Cims still dont pick the 2nd memorial that is further from the other park and subway. There doesnt seem to be a "quota".
  
• This would randomize the distribution to all parks, instead of now where it is the NEAREST park.

4) Send out of town visitors to a HOTEL first.

• Visitors from the map edge should generate revenue for the city by paying for a hotel
• Then, like a cim, they should leave for their Leisure from the HOTEL to the park (not the map edge, unless the venue is within 1 tile and they walk).

5) Check the commercial demand system balance. Feels like it is about a 30% reduction in overall capacity requirement for commercial, and a 10-100x increase in leisure at parks, monuments and cemeteries. EDIT: Looks like it is closer to a 50% reduction in demand! And, as expected, the bars and food were hit hard.

 

[Morgån]

Same issue here!

 

[kubakabuk]

Same issue with a couple of buildings and parks near the train station. Feels like people are only going there for a moment and then leave them right away. I don't see that much activity on other leisure buildings whatsoever.

Edit: uploaded screenshots

 

[SVG93]

My save has the same problem with loads of out of town visitors flocking to certain attractions and then immediately leaving the city again. This causes traffic jams troughout the region and clogs up the public transport network without providing any economic benefits to the city. Graveyards seem to be especially popular but other attractions like parks are also affected.

Most visitors arrive by taxi or public transport, visit their place of interest and immediately try to leave again. With their destination sometimes being an outside air connection even though my region has no airports. Leading to massive amounts of taxis, thousands of people queuing for busses or long lines of people walking along the highways. They sometimes also come as whole families. The new ingame statistics does not show them as homeless, but the Cim Census mod shows them as 10.000 homeless people in my city.

.

 

[ParadoxMichaela]

Information​

When reporting a crash, stability or performance problems, please use the Report a Crash button on the earlier screen​

[CLICK] I understand

Required​

Summary​

Leisure overload (too many taxis & small park visitors)

Steps to reproduce​

After patch 1.2.5f1 (anniversary) there was a change made to how many visitors each area with entertainment receives.

Some venues get extra. Unfortunately it seems random which venues get more, but from my observation (any or all):

Make a park next to a train station.
Add a cemetery and then add several sub buildings attached to the ROAD and not the main building.
Build a water tower, add the observation deck, then add a small park on the same block.
Add a 2x2 gym within 1 tile of the map edge where there is an outside road connection.
Add a small (2x2 or 2x3) pocket park near a major attraction like the signature observation tower.
Build commercial with Beverages or Recreation and add a few parks nearby.

Dog parks and the small gym seem to get the most ancillary visitors.
Water Tower Observation deck and the vanilla cemetery sub buildings get the most primary visitors.
Parks of any size near a train station are by far the worst

Expected Result​

This change is mostly welcome, many leisure venues now have appropriate foot traffic, inbound car traffic, and get both residents and outside visitors. I welcome the additional traffic to a believable point.

See 1st comment below: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...xis-small-park-visitors.1733787/post-30263094

Actual Result​

It seems like the leisure venues that were the most popular before now have a "halo effect" that spills over to nearby parks. The cims then tend to visit the nearest park as if it were the main attraction. Now, due to this overload, the LeisureSystem is the top Pathfind use of CPU cycles.

It seems to work similar to the air pollution effect. If you have several factories that pollute, the each new one you add MULTIPLIES the air pollution instead of adding to it. In this case, it is like the TRAIN STATION multiplies its own leisure to any SMALL PARK and then causes a rush of cims. So it takes the "5" entertainment effect of the small park and multiplies it by the "50" of the train station, resulting in a small park with 250 entertainment effect.

The result for the player when not near a train station is unmanageable taxi traffic. See photos for examples of back to back lines of taxis and see reddit posts detailing others with this issue.

I also notice that 3,500 businesses have closed since the patch. Many I replaced with offices. Many of those businesses used to provide leisure (Entertainment, Meals, etc). Now they are gone, it feels like the Leisure system is in overdrive, desperate to find a new place for people to go (where before there were many options in local commercial.)

It changes the dynamic of the city if people must newly travel far, especially since it seems they prefer high concentrations of entertainment. On smaller maps, this may draw cims away from a local business to flock to a Cemetery instead.

It also feels like many of these visitors are "dummy" traffic. Some are not residents, not tourists, and just visitors who pop in and out.

Game Version​

1.2.5f1

What mods do you have installed?​

None required. Cim Route Highlighter provides the count and colors for cim travel using multiple modes as seen in screenshots.

Affected Feature​

• Balance
• Gameplay
• Performance

Platform​

• Steam
• Microsoft Store (Xbox)

Additional Information​

Additional Information​

I have documented the problem here:

Most popular place or does AI love dogs?

Hello everyone! Do you like dogs? A new "Dog Activity Park" has opened in my new city: Cars bring Sims from all over the area: We are waiting for everyone! "Dog Activity Park".

forum.paradoxplaza.com

You can try the save file from when the patch was released:

nrr 3 Million - Paradox Mods

Niles’ River Region [nrr] save game with 3 MILLION

mods.paradoxplaza.com

Or the save file after "reset residents/vehicles" and "cleanup obsolete entities" was used (6 months elapsed):

nrr-2948-bug-office-leisure - Paradox Mods

6 months after patch (office-leisure bug)

mods.paradoxplaza.com

Here are other examples:

https://www.reddit.com/r/CitiesSkylines2/comments/1jm1bfq/is_anyone_else_getting_a_taxi_conga_line_at_their

https://www.reddit.com/r/CitiesSkylines2/comments/1jhpnc8/slow_game_speed_lag_15_fps_when_unpaused_a_lot_of

Save Game​

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Other Attachments​

View attachment 1273982View attachment 1273983View attachment 1273984View attachment 1273985View attachment 1273986View attachment 1273987View attachment 1273988View attachment 1273989View attachment 1273990View attachment 1273991View attachment 1273992View attachment 1273993View attachment 1273994View attachment 1273995View attachment 1273996View attachment 1273997

Thank you for this very detailed report! The devs will take a closer look, and if they have additional questions we will get back to you!

 

[avvvv]

I have a very similar issue, in my case people that come from other towns (to visit my dog park or outdoor gym lol) are unemployed and without residence and instantly switch to "moving away" activity when they are done with the visit. Often it could be a whole family arriving in separate (!) taxis, they go to a pub or to a commercial providing leisure and then proceed to "move out". It got so bad I had a ~2000+ taxi/month usage with a stagnant walkable town of about 5k

I did not have any public transport so all the visitors had to walk back... I noticed the issue some time after I placed the park maintenance building. I tried but couldn't recreate the bug so I can't say for sure this was how it happened.

 

[phillycheeze1]

I also have had this bug impact my save, and unfortunately has made the save unplayable.

@avvvv (or anyone else) were you able to figure out how to get rid of the bug? I've tried deleting/recreating the parks, cemetery, and outside connections but it is still present.

 

[Arararamba]

So we are better of by bulldozing all our parks

 

[phillycheeze1]

After moving around parks and leisure items, it seems to be how the OP mentioned - there is some sort of multiplying effect causing this. I have a train station, the bronze statue, and the large city park all right next to each other. These are causing insane amounts of train cims - my city of 19k is using all the available trains to two outside connections and each train is full (840 cims) with over 2,000 waiting at the edge stations and my own station. The cemetery, with upgrades, seems to be high enough attractiveness that it'll attract taxis no matter what - luckily the UK cemetery doesn't have this effect, so those can be used as a workaround.

Moving the bronze statue and large city park far away from each other seems to help pretty massively. I think keeping large attractiveness/entertainment items away from any other parks or transit centers is temporarily how to solve the issue. Disabling the train lines, as I tried to do, just caused all of the cims to walk along the train tracks from the outside connection. They don't stop either.

Additionally, the commercial property closest to the train station gets slammed as well. It's only the single closest one - but will have hundreds of outside connection cims inbound towards it, but the next closest commercial property has none.

All of the cims have a status of "Moving away" once they visit the activity which implies they are moving or are homeless. Which is probably why the one mod labels them as homeless in the statistics.

 

[phillycheeze1]

I'll also add another data point about happening after the park maintenance building. That was my experience too. Might just be a coincidence, but my parks/attractions near the train station were there for quite a while before the maintenance building and there was never a problem. So something definitely "triggers" this bug to take effect.

 

[Arararamba]

After moving around parks and leisure items, it seems to be how the OP mentioned - there is some sort of multiplying effect causing this. I have a train station, the bronze statue, and the large city park all right next to each other. These are causing insane amounts of train cims - my city of 19k is using all the available trains to two outside connections and each train is full (840 cims) with over 2,000 waiting at the edge stations and my own station. The cemetery, with upgrades, seems to be high enough attractiveness that it'll attract taxis no matter what - luckily the UK cemetery doesn't have this effect, so those can be used as a workaround.

Moving the bronze statue and large city park far away from each other seems to help pretty massively. I think keeping large attractiveness/entertainment items away from any other parks or transit centers is temporarily how to solve the issue. Disabling the train lines, as I tried to do, just caused all of the cims to walk along the train tracks from the outside connection. They don't stop either.

Additionally, the commercial property closest to the train station gets slammed as well. It's only the single closest one - but will have hundreds of outside connection cims inbound towards it, but the next closest commercial property has none.

All of the cims have a status of "Moving away" once they visit the activity which implies they are moving or are homeless. Which is probably why the one mod labels them as homeless in the statistics.

In my first game I made a 200k city. But i didn't get the move in and away because it was about 20 k each. That would mean that every resident of the city would get replaced by a new after 10 month. But now I understand.

 

[Arararamba]

Do you guys think this is connected to the low amount of tourists in some way?

 

[nilesism]

Thank you for this very detailed report! The devs will take a closer look, and if they have additional questions we will get back to you!

Thank you for addressing this issue in the 1.3.3f1 update.

• Fixed high number of taxis & visitors arriving at small parks.

I wont be able to test the fix on my save until the office bug (in progress) has also been resolved (1732862) (1732026) (1691341), as I would prefer to only run the simulation forward once. Hopefully this update solves the small park visitor and train station problem for other players!

 

[phillycheeze1]

I've been running my impacted save at normal speed for about 10 minutes. It seems to be fixed.