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novapaddy

War-Father
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Aug 26, 2009
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The Putin mod was a great mod. I looked at it again the other day and was sad to see so much work and effort from many people just sitting there unused.

Of course it had its biases and problems. I suppose it had an anti-American bias and for that you can blame me. This was really caused by the "stuff" I was reading on a daily basis to try to find ideas for events. Read enough fake news and even your head will be turned to a non-natural direction. I was in the USA only a couple of weeks ago. I liked the Sam Adams beer and the food was great too.

SO, I'd like to use the Putin mod as a framework for a new mod. I don't want to run foul of anyone in authority.

The new mod will use the new E3-FN map, which of course is mumia's map of 8000 provinces trimmed back to 6000+ provinces (not finished yet), and only set up for 1936 so far.

I'm looking for ideas:

Should be set the mod to start 5 years from now, in President Trump's 2nd term?
President Putin will of course still be around and Mrs Merkel as well? Maybe not as she only gets 4 more years? Remember Putin and Merkel share one factor, they have both been around and in Power for ages and ages.

I'd love to hear your ideas and hopefully something will gel and we can use the framework of the previous Putin Mod and take it further.

Ta
 
This is great news that your thinking about another mod.

I would suggest that you use the original 2015 start or the old MDS 2003 date.

Instead of making it a Putin 2 why not make it Putin mod versian 2.0 a massive update to the last one. We don't need a new mod because we already have a great mod to use as a base.

All it would require is new events some ministers TTs leaders and the such to be scattered about. Maybe even add some new music and you would have a great update.
 
I've got a bunch of color graphics for a modern-day scenario (minister, tech team pics, shields/flags) I made/collected for an abandoned project if you're interested.
 
The 2003 starting date which @Tera Brandford suggested sounds reasonable for me. Trying to predict the future from year one doesn't sound like a great idea (just in my opinion of course). By the way I'm happy to see you on the modding scene again! :)
 
I think it should jump to the future 10-20 years. Why this is good?

- you will get a free hand and events, lore, history etc. Since this would than be in the scifi category and relatively far future, nobody could predict what would really happen. Only a few glimpse of probability. (I mean who exactly predicted with sane mind a reborn medieval Caliphate for one.)
- technology would be more advanced, but not that far. So you get a free hand at military inventions.
- 2022 marks a new era in military, since than almost all nations modernize their weaponry. So anything after that will look interesting.
- you can really throw in any party you like, or completely new nations. (A fractured Italy and Spain is a great probability.)
- shiny new flags. (Because well why not? A scifi theme could move away from standard ones. And you could use modern flags like this: https://i.redd.it/4y1nkr36383z.png
- new ministers and leaders (so nobody could argue about who would be there or would be not.)
- new storyline (so you could mix existing scifi novel storylines and not read 50 pages of forum about one arguing with another in Nepalian agricultural policies.)

Some materials to help you out:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_War_in_2020
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cauldron_(Bond_novel) (it is a surprise, that he predicted even some parts of todays history
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Clancy's_EndWar
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arc_Light_(novel)
https://www.fantasticfiction.com/b/larry-bond/red-phoenix.htm
https://www.fantasticfiction.com/b/larry-bond/enemy-within.htm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_First_President_of_Japan (I know its a manga, but it has a really good story with great predictions.)
https://www.fantasticfiction.com/b/larry-bond/shadows-of-war.htm

And some other material if you choose the setting:

https://io9.gizmodo.com/what-europe-will-look-like-in-2035-if-russian-tabloids-1587988556
https://imgur.com/a/X5biUWN
http://www.southchinasea.org/files/2011/08/Overlapping-EEZ-Claims-and-Oil-Fields.png
https://www.nytimes.com/roomfordeba...-to-be-redrawn/why-china-will-reclaim-siberia
https://i.redditmedia.com/3zBjHOoKvWvIpmmF1IQd8SOW4Fh9aYCPZgZb5uDi1gc.png?fit=crop&crop=faces,entropy&arh=2&w=960&s=1c2e333428dd6fe377f02a1114a718dd
http://cominganarchy.com/2009/08/12/wannabe-state/comment-page-1/
https://www.globalvillagespace.com/separatist-movements-sprouting-india-losing-its-grip/
https://www.amazon.com/Complete-Separatist-Movements-Aspirant-Abkhazia/dp/1936117991

(These materials could also be useful if you stay in 2015 or earlier but you would like to add separatist nations or alternate history.)
 
All good stuff guys and plenty of reading material for me to look at. Thanks

I suppose a 2003 start-date would play through about 30 or 40 years, so you could possibly cater for all wants?

Anyone got an old MDS 2015 mod that they can upload?
 
I think it should jump to the future 10-20 years. Why this is good?

- you will get a free hand and events, lore, history etc. Since this would than be in the scifi category and relatively far future, nobody could predict what would really happen. Only a few glimpse of probability. (I mean who exactly predicted with sane mind a reborn medieval Caliphate for one.)
- technology would be more advanced, but not that far. So you get a free hand at military inventions.
- 2022 marks a new era in military, since than almost all nations modernize their weaponry. So anything after that will look interesting.
- you can really throw in any party you like, or completely new nations. (A fractured Italy and Spain is a great probability.)
- shiny new flags. (Because well why not? A scifi theme could move away from standard ones. And you could use modern flags like this: https://i.redd.it/4y1nkr36383z.png
- new ministers and leaders (so nobody could argue about who would be there or would be not.)
- new storyline (so you could mix existing scifi novel storylines and not read 50 pages of forum about one arguing with another in Nepalian agricultural policies.)

Some materials to help you out:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_War_in_2020
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cauldron_(Bond_novel) (it is a surprise, that he predicted even some parts of todays history
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Clancy's_EndWar
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arc_Light_(novel)
https://www.fantasticfiction.com/b/larry-bond/red-phoenix.htm
https://www.fantasticfiction.com/b/larry-bond/enemy-within.htm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_First_President_of_Japan (I know its a manga, but it has a really good story with great predictions.)
https://www.fantasticfiction.com/b/larry-bond/shadows-of-war.htm

And some other material if you choose the setting:

https://io9.gizmodo.com/what-europe-will-look-like-in-2035-if-russian-tabloids-1587988556
https://imgur.com/a/X5biUWN
http://www.southchinasea.org/files/2011/08/Overlapping-EEZ-Claims-and-Oil-Fields.png
https://www.nytimes.com/roomfordeba...-to-be-redrawn/why-china-will-reclaim-siberia
https://i.redditmedia.com/3zBjHOoKvWvIpmmF1IQd8SOW4Fh9aYCPZgZb5uDi1gc.png?fit=crop&crop=faces,entropy&arh=2&w=960&s=1c2e333428dd6fe377f02a1114a718dd
http://cominganarchy.com/2009/08/12/wannabe-state/comment-page-1/
https://www.globalvillagespace.com/separatist-movements-sprouting-india-losing-its-grip/
https://www.amazon.com/Complete-Separatist-Movements-Aspirant-Abkhazia/dp/1936117991

(These materials could also be useful if you stay in 2015 or earlier but you would like to add separatist nations or alternate history.)

I would have to disagree with placing the mod in some future scenario. With the current turbulence in the world today it is just too hard predict the future with any real accuracy.
 
I would have to disagree with placing the mod in some future scenario. With the current turbulence in the world today it is just too hard predict the future with any real accuracy.

There are also games with quite good storylines.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People's_General

(The lack of prediction is precisely why it should be in the future. So nobody would storm the forum with their own political views and agendas.)

Well I'm still working on the map. One large file left to do. The map is for 1936 dhfull.
So after this is done, I'll create the modern day map. Should be better than before since we have all those extra TAGS, so more countries. I mean not having to have the countries of the Caribbean all put into one group to save TAGS.

I think that you need to start in a time that is familiar, so you feel comfortable?
So maybe just before March 2003, so the player can decide NOT to invade Iraq, which of course leads us directly to today's situation.
If he does not invade Iraq, then what happens ?

We can still have a setting in the future, as the player will need to have about 30 years of playtime to conquer the world?

I'm intending to use the putin mod as it is, so it saves most of the work.
EVENTS of course will be the main difference between the putin mod and this new mod.

Maybe something like the old political certainties are falling away.
Once friendly Powers are finding their old alliances more under threats from within, than from the usual enemies.
New alliances are coming together as the world gradually wakes up to a new future and tries to cope with the changes that future brings.

So, really I think it would be good to have IDEAS about event-strings, event stories, let your imagination take you on a ride. Get those juices flowing and see where your imagination takes you.

I always found the best part of modding was writing events. You get a spark of inspiration and let the story develop and soon you'll find yourself in a very different world of possibilities.
 
Iraq with Saddam would probably try to enlarge itself. He would keep the radicals in check, but he would surely eat up as large a land as he can. A second Iraq-Iran war is for certain. Syria is a wildcard here.
Lybia would probably support Iraq. Not for religious, but practical reasons and anti-capitalist views. Lybia vs Egypt is also in the deck.
MANY African wars are fought between 2003 and 2018 but most people doesn't know this. Either of them could have a different outcome.
Boko Haram could in actuality be a perfect choice for religiously radical Muslims.
Migration to Europe would not be that large of an issue, but this would lower nationalism by large. What this means? It means, that the economy would fall lower (no cheap labor, no intermigration in EU countries for various reasons or not that large.) It would also culiminate in more people without jobs. (Surprisingly migration did open up larger amount of jobs. Without it, serious problems would be there.) Left leaning parties and politicians would be more preferred. Even some resurgent socialist wave. (As today there is nationalism, there would be socialism.)
EU would actually care more about diplomacy since there would not be a common enemy. Anti Russian views would be lower and anti-US views could have a strong support.
In Russia this same wave could be the downfall of Putin. Socialism is still strong there and political failures could be his diplomatic grave.
Without the US having enough power in Europe to fasten the downfall of Ukraine, it would not distance itself so far from Russia so there would not be any serious motives to counter it.
Ukraine could even join the EU. I remember, that in the early 2000s there was talks about even Russia joining.
Another talk was to make a German-Russian mini EU with their satellite states.
Without Putin the Chinese would not really care about Russian moves and they would start to eye SIberia. (People's General could come in handy here.)

I'll write some other ideas later. I think even a small event could butterfly away a lot of things.
 
Iraq with Saddam would probably try to enlarge itself. He would keep the radicals in check, but he would surely eat up as large a land as he can. A second Iraq-Iran war is for certain. Syria is a wildcard here.
Lybia would probably support Iraq. Not for religious, but practical reasons and anti-capitalist views. Lybia vs Egypt is also in the deck.
MANY African wars are fought between 2003 and 2018 but most people doesn't know this. Either of them could have a different outcome.
Boko Haram could in actuality be a perfect choice for religiously radical Muslims.
Migration to Europe would not be that large of an issue, but this would lower nationalism by large. What this means? It means, that the economy would fall lower (no cheap labor, no intermigration in EU countries for various reasons or not that large.) It would also culiminate in more people without jobs. (Surprisingly migration did open up larger amount of jobs. Without it, serious problems would be there.) Left leaning parties and politicians would be more preferred. Even some resurgent socialist wave. (As today there is nationalism, there would be socialism.)
EU would actually care more about diplomacy since there would not be a common enemy. Anti Russian views would be lower and anti-US views could have a strong support.
In Russia this same wave could be the downfall of Putin. Socialism is still strong there and political failures could be his diplomatic grave.
Without the US having enough power in Europe to fasten the downfall of Ukraine, it would not distance itself so far from Russia so there would not be any serious motives to counter it.
Ukraine could even join the EU. I remember, that in the early 2000s there was talks about even Russia joining.
Another talk was to make a German-Russian mini EU with their satellite states.
Without Putin the Chinese would not really care about Russian moves and they would start to eye SIberia. (People's General could come in handy here.)

I'll write some other ideas later. I think even a small event could butterfly away a lot of things.

You have great ideas Khor!

Maybe we need a more radical US President around the year 2000 to kick the game off. Someone like a Trump or McCain. Someone unpredictable.

I mean the way President Trump is kicking ass with his friends and enemies without a care in the world.

EDIT: Yeah, so maybe the start date should be November 4, 2000, when the new US President gets elected. But the possible candidates would need to be very different?
 
maybe it is me, but I think just porting the Putin mod to the new E3 map will suffice for now I mean what will people do with an extra 12 years of history? Conquer Europe as Russia, unite south America as Venezuela, create a massive israel. Porting the Putin mod over means less work as you have a base to work with as it used an old version of the E3 map, (speaking of which, I did port the old version over to 1.05) instead of making essentially a new mod from scratch like the 1750 mod idea. (which might be dead now? need confirmation on it as I liked working on it)

just my $0.02 on the subject.
 
maybe it is me, but I think just porting the Putin mod to the new E3 map will suffice for now I mean what will people do with an extra 12 years of history? Conquer Europe as Russia, unite south America as Venezuela, create a massive israel. Porting the Putin mod over means less work as you have a base to work with as it used an old version of the E3 map, (speaking of which, I did port the old version over to 1.05) instead of making essentially a new mod from scratch like the 1750 mod idea. (which might be dead now? need confirmation on it as I liked working on it)

just my $0.02 on the subject.

I agree.

It doesn't make too much sense to start a new mod from scratch when you already have a suitable base.
 
maybe it is me, but I think just porting the Putin mod to the new E3 map will suffice for now I mean what will people do with an extra 12 years of history? Conquer Europe as Russia, unite south America as Venezuela, create a massive israel. Porting the Putin mod over means less work as you have a base to work with as it used an old version of the E3 map, (speaking of which, I did port the old version over to 1.05) instead of making essentially a new mod from scratch like the 1750 mod idea. (which might be dead now? need confirmation on it as I liked working on it)

just my $0.02 on the subject.

Yeah, but I cannot just republish the putin mod. That mod is locked and dead. We are not allowed to talk about stuff like dead and locked mods. We can only talk about NEW mods.

I think to be safe and left alone by whomever is concerned, we need to create a new mod, with different ideas but yes, use the putin mod as a framework, but with different events.

EDIT: I mean less of a politically fractious mod, a more FUN mod, than a REAL life mod.

About 1750, yes I wish I had all day to mod again.... Must get back to that sometime.

................

If I had a programmer who could help with csv files, these wishes might just come true.
 
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Yeah, but I cannot just republish the putin mod. That mod is locked and dead. It had a million views, but go find that fact now?

I think to be safe and left alone by whomever is concerned, we need to create a new mod, with different ideas but yes, use the putin mod as a framework, but with different events. I mean to have a more normal mod without the politics of the putin mod which only generated unhappiness in some places.

About 1750, yes I wish I had all day to mod again.... Must get back to that sometime.

................

If I had a programmer who could help with csv files, these wishes might just come true.
I meant more as a base for modding modern day mods, and to allow somebody who wants to continue modding to continue off the old mod and make changes as they wish.

yea, I agree the old mod threads had issues involving "controversial" topics, however I believe any modern day mod will have political arguments in the discussion thread(s) as some people believe history should go one way and some think it should go another way.

If you really wanted a dedicated modern day mod without mods on this forum deciding to close it down for any number of reasons, I think a separate forum like the old KR forum is the way to go or at least I think it is a good idea along with maintaining a download thread on these forums.


yea, I would also like to return to the 1750 mod as it would be something new for darkest hour that would hopefully get to a release state.

I could help with ministers if it would help "Putin 2" be completed faster.

yes, I know Putin 2 is a placeholder name until a better name is thought of.

oh, I have a radical idea for a potential idea of the mod. Multiple scenarios, now hear me out with people suggesting certain start dates like 2001, 2003, 2015, 1989 etc. maybe the mod should include some other scenarios to make the mod different from most others not just one all encompassing "grand campaign" which PI seems to be moving towards with future games for some reason.
 
The problem with setting a mod in the future is you don't know who will be the leader then, or even what the pool of leaders will even look like. Same with events that transpire. Especially if you are intentionally looking towards having controversial figures at the helm of the US.

I'd say depending on what the Putin Mod was intended to be (I only barely remember it from so long ago) you could have it start in the 90s, in 1993 there was a small bout of civil unrest in the new Russian Federation that saw the last vestiges of the old system be removed by Yeltsin which could serve as the turning point, not to mention there is Ross Perot on the American Presidential ticket. I imagine a resurgent Russia with still active and large left-nationalist and communist forces and a US facing a huge political shake up would be interesting. It would also give you a clear 'objective' of what the scenario is going to be about, which is a big thing I think - having some clear goal of 'well what happens, what is going to happen, what is the major event this is centered around'.