Mage Class Is Too Shackled + Easy Fix

[Akkadian]

The Hero rework was a move in the right direction.

The purpose of the changes is to give the players more choice in customizing the class to their playstyle.

However, it's quite contradicting in a game that gives so many combo options, the mage class is locked into only lightning or fire damage.

For example I'm playing a spirit damage based empire with a wizard king ruler. Why can't I be a holy mage that smites enemies with spirit damage? or in other games a naturalist mage using nature damage? or a frost mage? or a shadow mage?

Easy fix:
Make the damage type of spells come from the main-hand weapon!
Change "Lightning Evoker" to "Chain Evoker"
Change "Fire Evoker" to "Meteor Evoker"

Status effects are a question mark, but I'm sure the talented designers at paradox can solve this.

By the way, why is "Curse", "Hex", and "Plague Magic" under the mage class? I understand the idea might be to give more options to the class, but honestly I'd rather have those in a separate "Warlock" Class.

 

[STARSDragoon]

Mage gets a new name with griffin patch. Elementalist.

 

[seperamos]

Mage had more choices of different affinity skills and spells under the old system. I'd have never purchased season 2 if I'd known the hero rework would have made heroes less modular and extremely limited without attempting item fixes and skills balance passes. It defeats the whole point of building your own fantasy archetype heroes, and class recipes or requirements could have filled the definitions required. I WAS able to build Paladins, Spellslingers, Pirates, Warlocks, and other configurations!

Also, intended mages were able to customize their weapons without needing an official class designation. In a certain number of turns, they could switch from staff, to orb, to sword. They could be mounted or unmounted with orbs. We HAD nearly unlimited choices to modify our heroes, and now others are complaining about "too much restriction". Some people knew that would happen.

We HAD everything we needed under the old system's herocrafting, and then it was removed because of killing momentum+magelock abuse and because people needed defined classes that were already used in other games. And we have too few defined classes for heroes/rulers in what is supposed to be a 4x strategy game!

 

[Diovidius]

Just wait until the details of the Griffon patch and the Battlesaint are revealed. We know 'something' is going to change for the Mage and Ritualist but we don't know what exactly.

I don't think we'll ever get a Mage that deals Blight or Spirit damage. But we might get Spirit damage dealing Battlesaint dragons or Blight damage dealing Ritualist Giants or Mages with proper Frost damage abilities (instead of Curse).

 

[Mrixl2520]

The right-side skilltree branches into frost/curse and plague/curse.

 

[Blanch Warren]

Presumably because there are few things that resist holy damage; a number of astral units have instead been made weaker to it.

It's mostly tied to order tomes.

For the most part it supplements physical damage. Chaplain gets pure spirit damage, but it's a single-attack support unit.

Wrath of the faithful spell does holy damage. It depends on the number of faithful units.

 

[seperamos]

Just wait until the details of the Griffon patch and the Battlesaint are revealed. We know 'something' is going to change for the Mage and Ritualist but we don't know what exactly.

I don't think we'll ever get a Mage that deals Blight or Spirit damage. But we might get Spirit damage dealing Battlesaint dragons or Blight damage dealing Ritualist Giants or Mages with proper Frost damage abilities (instead of Curse).

Everytime somebody mentions the old system solving the problems we currently have now, you bring out a big red X and sidetrack the discussion with "what could be" musings instead of looking at the game for what it currently is. We STILL have less variety in the skill chains and spell chains of this system as opposed to the old system! Spellblade, Death knight, and Ranger are the only classes with decent weapon flexibility!

You dont want to improve this game, you want to keep it stagnant if not even more restrictive! WE COULD ALREADY BUILD ORDER MAGES UNDER THE OLD SYSTEM!!

 

[Blanch Warren]

If I had to guess spirit damage spell class, it would probably start with a mix of fire of holy, with higher holy damage at the end.

I would remind you that Tome of Smiting is a Tier IV unit.

 

[STARSDragoon]

Mage had more choices of different affinity skills and spells under the old system. I'd have never purchased season 2 if I'd known the hero rework would have made heroes less modular and extremely limited without attempting item fixes and skills balance passes. It defeats the whole point of building your own fantasy archetype heroes, and class recipes or requirements could have filled the definitions required. I WAS able to build Paladins, Spellslingers, Pirates, Warlocks, and other configurations!

Also, intended mages were able to customize their weapons without needing an official class designation. In a certain number of turns, they could switch from staff, to orb, to sword. They could be mounted or unmounted with orbs. We HAD nearly unlimited choices to modify our heroes, and now others are complaining about "too much restriction". Some people knew that would happen.

We HAD everything we needed under the old system's herocrafting, and then it was removed because of killing momentum+magelock abuse and because people needed defined classes that were already used in other games. And we have too few defined classes for heroes/rulers in what is supposed to be a 4x strategy game!

Mage skills were very lackluster. Past midgame they often werent worth the turn. New mage at least has impact with the evocation.

Also you can still take orb and not equip a mount.

 

[Blanch Warren]

A Warlock class could be interesting. I don't know how they'd fill it out apart from ice damage.

If it worked better on auto-battle than mage, I'd certainly take it.

 

[seperamos]

Mage skills were very lackluster. Past midgame they often werent worth the turn. New mage at least has impact with the evocation.

Also you can still take orb and not equip a mount.

Nothing lackluster about configuring an Order Mage with Exposing light as one of their battle spells! Thats been gone since the beginning of season 2, and we can only pray this new battlesaint class can make up for it!

 

[STARSDragoon]

Nothing lackluster about configuring an Order Mage with Exposing light as one of their battle spells! Thats been gone since the beginning of season 2, and we can only pray this new battlesaint class can make up for it!

Battlesaint seems to be more support oriented. With some martyr like skills, protection and healing.

maybe it has some offensive skills too, but i wouldnt count on it. Shop entry only mentions Support and Tank.

 

[Blanch Warren]

Battlesaint seems to be more support oriented.

As it should be, it would have been illogical for them to start off with an overpowered "holy mage."

I'm not even sure the game has any holy mages. Hell, I'd take even just a proc.

 

[seperamos]

We used to be able to build blight mages and druids under the old system as well! Plague with creature summons, and being able to switch weapons after so many turns as needed. We HAD FREEDOM to develop our heroes as we saw fit and play the fantasy archetypes we wanted!

None of the anti-herocraft crowd can deny any of these statements im saying here, but instead suppress any mention of the old system's positives! We had everything we wanted under the old system!

 

[Blanch Warren]

Son I just want another mage besides undead ritualist that works in auto-battle

Mage skills are more consistent than they used to be, but I can't say they're reliable.

 

[Blanch Warren]

How about an order mage whose power is based partly on the number of order Tomes

That might keep it from being overpowered

 

[STARSDragoon]

As it should be, it would have been illogical for them to start off with an overpowered "holy mage."

I'm not even sure the game has any holy mages. Hell, I'd take even just a proc.

You mean heroes? Not currently. In old system a high culture hero could take their battlemage t3 units area attack. But it was just that, that one skill. Only getting some slight buffs with +magic dmg. Usually my mages used more basic attacks than those skills. Because orbs at least scaled with tier and +magicdmg.

 

[seperamos]

You mean heroes? Not currently. In old system a high culture hero could take their battlemage t3 units area attack. But it was just that, that one skill. Only getting some slight buffs with +magic dmg. Usually my mages used more basic attacks than those skills. Because orbs at least scaled with tier and +magicdmg.

There were more affinity-related AOE spells present in the old system than what we have now. We don't even have Blizzard or related offensive frost magic that can compete with the lightning or fire spell chains. We lost Plague for Blight/Nature mage builds. I'm hoping that changes with Elementalist, but there's no clear path for how heroes and rulers are supposed to be organized, besides being governors and duelists or stack leaders. There are no unique roles for them in cultures that can improve their faction or cripple it if lost to combat.

It makes sense to have the basic classes of Mage, Ritualist, Defender, Warrior, and Archer/Skirmisher. We should also have advanced classes or subclasses that expand the function of heroes, being that they are the most important and highlighted units of the game. Spellblade, Ranger, and Death knights qualify as powerful secondary classes, but they can be recruited in any culture alongside the basics! Why would I take the basic classes if these are available?? There has to be serious consideration with how heroes and heroic classes interact and are available to different cultures to keep some sense of logic and immersion in the game.

We have too few units available for culture or tome rosters to provide strategic depth, so the game will tilt towards effective ruler and hero control. Cult of Personality is an example of how powerful heroes are and how easy games can be with limitless pantheon and hero summoning. And heroes, unfortunately, have become underwhelming with few defined classes and an artifical and illogical cap system placed on the item forge. Binding essence was rare enough without needing to add on fragments!

 

[Blanch Warren]

You mean heroes? Not currently. In old system a high culture hero could take their battlemage t3 units area attack. But it was just that, that one skill. Only getting some slight buffs with +magic dmg. Usually my mages used more basic attacks than those skills. Because orbs at least scaled with tier and +magicdmg.

Afraid I don't recall, but as you say, a T3 attack. Not decked out holy damage from the beginning.
Even not knowing what I was talking about, I was right all along.

The fervor of my rightness is a gift unto your subjects. When it courses through their veins, they become mightier, more valiant.

 

[Blanch Warren]

We don't even have Blizzard

Well I mean we do it's just a 80 mana 20 damage strategic map spell that reduces status resistance.

The freeze spell your are looking for targets one unit, as you might expect. So you see, everything makes sense.