Majesty 2 Community is dead.

[unmerged(203067)]

Seems it is; if you don´t agree, prove yourself right, you will liven it up by your own effort.


(maybe im wrong and im not aware that there is a huge forum in "anywhere else besides here", so if that´s the case im sorry, please tell me where it is....)

Im sad this is happening, that´s all.

 

[unmerged(129811)]

Its not dead! Once the expansions are released Majesty 2 shall rule again! I hope.....

 

[unmerged(203067)]

well it´s not really dead but just alive by a few...

when a forum has no new posts every day, it can be considered a dead cause soon after, and this one seems to be one of them... guys... do something...

 

[Alfryd]

I'm not sure there's really much that can be done. Maj2 MP hasn't really taken off, and everyone's beaten the campaign by now... plus, nobody seems inclined to tell stories about their experiences. I guess it's possible the russian forums are livelier. *shrugs*

 

[unmerged(203067)]

You are one of the optimistic residents, lol.


Well, besides joking, none has the guts to create a map, even myself, which im still learning lol, quite lazily.... because of lack of motivation.


seein that some people are creating something will make this all more alive i think.

 

[Alfryd]

Like I've said elsewhere, I think interest in the map editor is going to be limited by the lack of serious scripting facilities, without which it's hard to create elaborate, original scenarios or a major overhaul of gameplay mechanics. That said, Hapuga and his crew seem quite committed.

 

[Hapuga]

We do what we do because we like it. And because we like working with each other, we have great people in our team. It is not really because we are hardcore Majesty fans, it's because we want to create something. And as we started, we have to finish it. Period.

I am making maps because I love making maps. Not because I love majesty so much. I don't play majesty at all. I only make maps for it.

 

[IamMeeks]

I think it needs another expansion, an updated friendlier to use easier to learn map maker, plus co-op added in. 2 out of those 3 will probably draw the community back and generate some buzz for the game. All 3 would be fantastic!

 

[Hapuga]

All it needs is a working MP, and ability to make MP maps. That's all.

BTW, to tell you the truth, I can't understand why everyone is calling the editor unfriendly. It's very comfortable and user-friendly. Yes, there are some things that may confuse you at the first sight, but most of those things are not needed for beginner and intermediate map making levels. There are plenty of games where the editor is really confusing, and believe me, M2 editor is great comparing to those editors. As soon as you learn to use basic functions like adding buildings, making kingdoms and setting alliances, consider yourself capable of using this editor.

I assume that most of those people who complain about the editor have never made maps before. Well, Let's put it this way. A map editor is a professional tool. As any professional tool, it needs certain amount of knowledge and understanding to use it wisely. A Map editor is not there for entertaining (well in some games it is, like in Trackmania), its for level designing.

I will try and help you get the basics of the editor, but I need time to write a solid manual. So let's make a deal, stop complaining and I will do my best to help you

 

[jpinks]

I would agree doesnt seem that Paradox even wants to support it as nobody seems to ever answer the bug reports or even ask a question.

 

[IamMeeks]

Of course, the lack of multiplayer support in maps is a huge reason this community has died off too. I didn't think of that in my prior post. Silly me.

I disagree (just my opinion) on the map editor point though. I've been playing games since the early 80's when I got my Commodore 64 and started making them for that platform. I worked in the gaming industry up until a few years ago. My wife still makes games (currently working for Ignition Entertainment). I've played with plenty editors (and programmed one personally) in my time, mostly for turn based strategy games, but also with a few real time strategy ones as well.

I'm not bragging, or trying to sound haughty, or anything like that. Just stating my experience so I don't sound like some console fanboi who moves from one game to another without any loyalty. In all my years, I've rarely experienced a map editor worse than this one. This is the very editor that the makers of this game use, and that is the problem. If an editor is released to the general public, it should be made so it is friendly to use in order to spur map development. By making it have a large learning curve, full of bugs, and things that don't work, it deters many away from adding maps to the game.

Now, I think an editor, even as poorly designed as this, is better than nothing. There will always be a few who will slog through it and make maps for the rest of us (thank you Hagupa!). But I'm pretty sure the lack of community developed maps speaks for itself in this game.

 

[ShiBDiB]

I would agree doesnt seem that Paradox even wants to support it as nobody seems to ever answer the bug reports or even ask a question.

pdox isnt the developer.. they just published it. Its the devs job to report back to bug reports cause their the only 1s who can fix them.

And this game died the week it came out.. if anything its a step backwards from the original, and they already pulled an EA and released an expansion pack that was basically a large patch..

 

[Hapuga]

I disagree (just my opinion) on the map editor point though. I've been playing games since the early 80's when I got my Commodore 64 and started making them for that platform. I worked in the gaming industry up until a few years ago. My wife still makes games (currently working for Ignition Entertainment). I've played with plenty editors (and programmed one personally) in my time, mostly for turn based strategy games, but also with a few real time strategy ones as well.

Well, If you put it that way, yes, there is truth that the editor could be polished to a more attractive level. All I can say, Inco-Co is not (hopefully just for now) of such level to present a truly professional software. They have a long way to go and have many things to learn and improve. Majesty 2 was a good shot, but it obviously cannot be called a finished product. there are so many things that could be improved. A map editor (and I hope you will agree here with me) is a mirror of the game. It reflects 90% ow what the game is. The M2Edtor shows this perfectly. It's incompeteness, buggyness, and strangeness perfectly represents the game

 

[WaltherModel]

pdox isnt the developer.. they just published it. Its the devs job to report back to bug reports cause their the only 1s who can fix them.

And this game died the week it came out.. if anything its a step backwards from the original, and they already pulled an EA and released an expansion pack that was basically a large patch..

Exactly. THIS is why the "majesty 2 community" is dead. Because the people who made majesty 2 NEVER PLAYED majesty 1. I made this point so many times but I don't think people fully take the time to understand that. For every few people who, never played the original series, found this game on a website or a store shelf and enjoyed it (because the game itself wasn't *bad*) there were a dozen people who had played the original, and saw what a departure it was from it, were turned off from it, and instead of HARNESSING a loyal fanbase which had been with this game for 10 years, the devs had destroyed the "majesty 2 community" with the release of this game, and by statements ensuing which showed they did not care about the community. The majesty 2 community was/should have been the loyal fanbase from before - but everyone missed the point. What made Majesty great, what made it lasting, what made people loyal to it was there wasn't anything like it - indirect control, hero personality, quirky humor/charm, sim aspects - after all it was MTFKS!!! (Majesty the fantasy kingdom sim for those of you who dont know...and if you don't know that goes to my point about the community being killed) Instead of embracing what MADE majesty great, and expanding on it to make a great and hotly desired sequel, the devs who - let me make that point yet again never played the original majesty!!! - changed the game from something unique, which separates it from the crowd of games out there - and made it more generic, into a more of a cookie cutter rts. Cookie cutter, generic rts are a dime a dozen. Majesty the original was unique. People who are new to the series and like it (because its not a BAD game) and wonder why the community is dead - because I am one of the few people left bothering to post here to explain why, there should be hundreds more original majesty fans like me here, but they were turned off from all I was describing before. After the game was released, when I heard all the feedback about how all the charm was sucked out of the game, it took me months to even risk to buy the game, because I did not want to shatter my fond memories of the majesty series. I was disappointed as I thought. I gave it a chance, I played it through. I posted on forums offering feedback, asking if some of these issues would be addressed, and I saw others like me here months ago asking for the same things. But its clear that the people who never played the first majesty game didn't want to put in the time to fix it, maybe it was a money issue, maybe it was they just didn't give a you know what, or maybe they genuinely thought making it more of a generic game and just using its name to try to sucker in the older fanbase was a good thing. Well for all those that did get suckered in, a vast majority of those never got the expansion, because it doesn't address the underlying problems. If they wanted to make this sort of game, they should have called it a different name. Anything but Majesty. Then the community wouldn't have an issue with it, and we would all respect it for what it was. But when you take over a franchise, and you talk about making a sequel to something, its generally expected that the sequel echoes the first game (for if you liked the first game so much thus the demand for a sequel). Therein lies the failure, therein lies why there is no community. I also realize I am probably speaking to a brick wall here, but I felt the need to show that a few people did/do care about the series, and its a damn shame how it all ended up.

 

[unmerged(203067)]

Now, I think an editor, even as poorly designed as this, is better than nothing. There will always be a few who will slog through it and make maps for the rest of us (thank you Hagupa!). But I'm pretty sure the lack of community developed maps speaks for itself in this game.

An editor wich scares people away from mapmaking, no tutorials for it, the idea "learn it on your own" kills the possibility of a community in wich map making and replayability is the center.

They are dismissing one nice possibility to earn money by ignoring this simple fact.

It was weird to see even Majesty 1 lacked any map editor...

 

[Alfryd]

Yes, but the way that Maj1 was configured made a conventional 'map editor' almost redundant- you could get a huge variety of different scenarios simply by playing around with the freestyle settings, while randomised terrain made it impossible to simply create a static map in advance to play on.

@WaltherModel: I largely agree with what you're saying, and I could go on at length on the subject, but to be honest... I'm just tired. I'm tired of it. We're not saying anything that hasn't been said to the devs/paradox a dozen times before.

 

[Hapuga]

People, please. stop QQ. All these "it is dead" and "Majesty<value> better than Majesty <value>" are so tiring.

Here is the fact: you have the game, and it will not change much with the expansions. This is all you pretty much have. Instead of QQing, think of how you could possibly make this game better, or just turn to other games, seriously. Why wasting ur time just whining.

 

[Alfryd]

Well, I'd like to turn to other games, but the problem is that games today... are, well, mostly crap.

It's not just a case of nostalgia on my part- there's a general agreement that the problem of escalating costs vs. fixed market size have squeezed out innovation and led to rushed production schedules and cost-cutting measures across the board, so that games today tend to be derivative re-hashes of old formulas, riddled with bugs, short on content, and shackled by DRM.

There hasn't been an RPG or Sim-style title for at least 5 years that's really piqued my interest. (To hell with Mass Effect. Baldur's Gate had far more content, and Jade Empire had a more interesting protagonist.) Sure, the Civ series is still going strong and variations on the Citybuilder theme have cropped up, but there's nothing new about them. The indie scene has produced some interesting experiments, but they either lack decent artwork/media (e.g, Dwarf Fortress, Depths of Peril,) or had mixed results in terms of gameplay (e.g, Hinterland.)

I mean, on the subject of graphics, I'm perfectly happy with 2D-isometric graphics roughly on a par with Diablo 2, Stronghold or Majesty itself, which is why I'm rather looking forward to Avadon, the Black Fortress.

I am hoping that the game engine I'm working on might eventually serve as a testing-bed for ideas that would could be integrated into a *real* Majesty sequel, where user feedback and gameplay development take precedence over marketing hype and shiny graphics, but that's still a fairly remote prospect. (Might have an update relatively soon, though...)

But the thing that really rankles about the direction Maj2 took isn't just the game itself- it's the community that's gone. I miss old regulars like Talespinner, Falotar, Shifty, Smeagol, Twylah and the like who have simply disappeared and will likely never be heard from again.

 

[unmerged(203067)]

People, please. stop QQ. All these "it is dead" and "Majesty<value> better than Majesty <value>" are so tiring.

Here is the fact: you have the game, and it will not change much with the expansions. This is all you pretty much have. Instead of QQing, think of how you could possibly make this game better, or just turn to other games, seriously. Why wasting ur time just whining.

Because we are free to do so so i suggest you not to suggest us to stop whinning.

Better things like this exists than not. Someone on Paradox has to read such feeback; even if it goes ignored, as usual. It´s not good to just "shut up" and walk away from here when you like a game. Leave when you are just tired of it all, but not until then.

 

[unmerged(169164)]

Exactly. THIS is why the "majesty 2 community" is dead. Because the people who made majesty 2 NEVER PLAYED majesty 1. I made this point so many times but I don't think people fully take the time to understand that. For every few people who, never played the original series, found this game on a website or a store shelf and enjoyed it (because the game itself wasn't *bad*) there were a dozen people who had played the original, and saw what a departure it was from it, were turned off from it, and instead of HARNESSING a loyal fanbase which had been with this game for 10 years, the devs had destroyed the "majesty 2 community" with the release of this game, and by statements ensuing which showed they did not care about the community. The majesty 2 community was/should have been the loyal fanbase from before - but everyone missed the point.

Story of the hen and the egg.

My thought: the game communauty has changed.

Games are played differently and people no longer played the games with the same expectations as before. Such a mass offer.

I got scorched for stating that Mass Effect 2 was a failed game because it was supposed to offer a suicide mission experience, à la dirty dozen but failed epically on this point. Survival of the hero was supposed to be something to be earned. It is not.
By playing the game, it appears that this side was not implemented. Probably the developpers wanted to make a limited number of travels before triggering events, forcing the players to certain moves but it was not included.
The game failed at its core game play.
Yet, mentioning it was poorly received as some felt it ruined their game.

Game communauties have changed: it is no longer about playing games like an entertainment, like an enjoyable experiment. It is all about speeding through a mass offer. Gaming is like a task. People rush to finish a game (and the stupidity of achievements) and shelve it.
A game communauty lasts three months after release date. After that, players move to the next game to finish. As if it was a task, a duty.

I dont see M2 a different game from that. It lasted three months. And people moved on. Do not mean Majesty players were dozen times more than non Majesty players. Simply means that this game was consumed like so many other games: complete and shelve. Dont analyze. Dont assess through critical thinking.

The industry has taken a turn. Back in the 80s, 90s, projection of future gameplay gave a total perspective. Games were supposed to grow stronger on certain features that were beloved by some.

Baldur's Gate projected ten years later was supposed to be 3 times deeper. A more living universe etc...

Fact is that the succeeding games did not bring more depth, they reduce depth.

A turn has been made. Certain features were expected to grow, to become even more determinant.

In the end, they havent. They got reduced.