Mech Quirks Mods Discussion

[Yeach]

I am thinking of modding in mech quirks for the Battlemechs currently in game.
Just want to open that I have no modding skills outside of changing numbers in the json files.

Source for Mech Quirks
http://www.sarna.net/
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/technical-readout-3028.1074121/
Thanks Justin
http://www.lordsofthebattlefield.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=32567

Also a big thanks to GenTask for his GT_Weapon Diversity Mod

These are my opinion on how I would go about it
So the quirks listed for the mechs are as follows

Quirk – Definition – Possible solution

Weapons (adjust values in weapon json files)
Ammunition Feed Problem (Enforcer/AC10, Centurion/AC10) - Prone to jamming; make another roll to see if system jams – adjust individual weapon stats

Anti-Aircraft Targeting (JagerMech, Orion) - More accurate attacks against flying units; proportional to damage potential of unit's ranged weapons – adjust individual weapon stats

Exposed Weapon Linkage (Firestarter/Flamers, Enforcer/AC10) - Increase chance of critical hit from enemy attack – adjust individual weapon stats (if possible)

Fast Reload (Enforcer/AC10, Trebuchet/torso weapons) - Reduces amount of time to reload by half –adjust individual weapon stats (if possible)

Improved Cooling Jacket (Enforcer/AC10, Griffin/PPC) - Reduces heat generated by weapon by 1 point (3 heat in BT) –adjust individual weapon stats

Improved Targeting - (Panther/short, Centurion/short) - Bonus to at range to-hit numbers –adjust individual weapon stats

Chassis (adjust values in chassisdef and mechdef files)
Barrel Fist (Enforcer, Zeus/RA) - Not penalized with +1 targeting number to their hit roll – adjust meleetohitmodifer in chassisdef

Battlefists (Hunchback, Griffin, Shadowhawk, Awesome/LA, Atlas) -Bonus to hit with punch attacks –adjust meleetohit modifier in chassisdef?

Combat Computer (Stalker) -Total heat generated by the unit each turn reduced by 4 to a minimum of 0 – lower intial tonnage in chassisdef and add additional heatsinks in mechdef?

No / minimal Arms (Locust, UrbanMech, Jenner, Cicada, Catapult, Stalker) - Penalty made to stand up when knocked down; cannot make physical attacks –adjust melee damage/instability/tohitmodifer in chassisdef

Reinforced Legs (Highlander) - Suffers from only half of normal amount of damage for performing DFA –change DFASelfDamage to 0.5x in chassisdef

Stable (Dragon, Wolverine) - Gain bonus when force to execute a piloting skill roll as a result of physical attack –increase melee and stability in chassisdef

Weak Head Armor (Catapult) - Head armor that is treated as if it were several points lower than the recorded value –reduce head and/or currentinteralstructure in mechdef

Weak Legs (Locust) -When unit is kicked or makes a DFA attack, the unit will suffer a critical hit –change DFAselfdamage/instability by 2x in chassisdef

Cockpitmods
Improved Communications (Wolverine, Atlas) - Ignore ECM and satellite uplink – use communication mod to increase morale

Improved Life Support (Shadowhawk) - Reduction in apparent level of heat used for checking if the pilot or operator receives damage following a critical hit to the life support systems. -use the reinforce cockpit upgrade


And now to the rest of the quirks that I have no idea or the skills to change

Command Mech (Wolverine, Black Knight, Battlemaster, Highlander, Atlas, King Crab) -bonus to initiative roll –I understand there is an initiative mod command console mod https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/mod-talk-mod-discussion-thread.1091249/page-6

Bad Reputation (Blackjack, Banshee) - Worth half the normal resale value
Easy to maintain (Spider, Trebuchet, Orion, Zeus) -Bonus to repair and maintain
Rugged (Vindicator, Griffin, Kintaro, Thunderbolt, Grasshopper, Orion, Victor, Banshee) - Reduces amount of time between maintenance cycles required
Cramped Cockpit (Vindicator,Wolverine) - +1 penalty to piloting rolls
Difficult to eject (Vindicator, Highlander) –possible additional damage during ejection
Distracting (Atlas, Banshee) -Penalty to Morale –say an enemy Atlas could lower your current morale
Cowl (Highlander) - Provides 3 additional armor points against attack from sides and rear of the head
Extended Torso Twist (UrbanMech, Wolverine) -Can twist one hexside further (360 deg?)
No torso twist (Jenner, Cicada, Vindicator, Jagermech, King Crab) –no torso twist
Narrow / Low Profile (Locust, Commando, UrbanMech, Dragon) - Penalty to Range attack rolls by enemy (adjust to-hit at range numbers for these mechs?)
Hyper-Extending Actuators (Quickdraw) and Flip arms (Blackjack/Jagermech) –would allow the Battlemech to flip arm weapons into rear arc


Agree / Disagree / Discuss.

 

[Justin Kase]

Would love to see these implemented!

Elements of these are already implemented (some 'Mechs have higher Melee bonuses than others), and. as you already know, there are mods that look to address these quirks (GT Weapon Diversity)

The Command Console mod that @GenTask (and others) had done could be further modified to make more of a Command Suite. Which makes me wonder if we can apply bonuses like that directly to a 'Mech model instead of components.... hmmm.....

You may want to engage @Sigil, as he is starting work on a Targeting / Com mod (I really wish they'd give us another 2 head slots just for T&T amd Comms) and it may be good to bounce ideas off each other (see his 'Quirkening' thread). I have hopes to convert his ideas into an overlay that can be applied on top of the Variants mod (as an optional piece).

If we can't apply the bonuses directly to the 'Mechs, then for the Stalker you may be better off making it a component and taking the same approach we did with the Command Console - force it in the head slot, but make it too big (have it take 3 slots), so it can't really be removed.

For cramped cockpit, you could reduce Morale instead of a piloting penalty. Or do both

 

[Dheran]

Anti-Aircraft Targeting (JagerMech, Orion) - More accurate attacks against flying units; proportional to damage potential of unit's ranged weapons – adjust individual weapon stats

Irrelevant right now, as the game doesn't have support for flying units. Funny thing though - you can choose movement type as aerospace, so I imagine it will be a thing in the future.

Fast Reload (Enforcer/AC10, Trebuchet/torso weapons) - Reduces amount of time to reload by half –adjust individual weapon stats (if possible)

IMO irelevant - mission time is set to 1 day, so any time spent on reloading will be covered within probably and it won't matter if it's faster or not.

Battlefists (Hunchback, Griffin, Shadowhawk, Awesome/LA, Atlas) -Bonus to hit with punch attacks –adjust meleetohit modifier in chassisdef?

Animation for the hit is decided after toHit is rolled, so adjusting either meleetohit or base melee damage is sensible way to go.

Stable (Dragon, Wolverine) - Gain bonus when force to execute a piloting skill roll as a result of physical attack –increase melee and stability in chassisdef

Cramped Cockpit (Vindicator,Wolverine) - +1 penalty to piloting rolls

Piloting skill check is a thing in the game (though only used in one situation AFAIK) so maybe go this way?

Improved Life Support (Shadowhawk) - Reduction in apparent level of heat used for checking if the pilot or operator receives damage following a critical hit to the life support systems. -use the reinforce cockpit upgrade

Hmm, maybe add Guts modifier to chassis instead? Guts impacts post battle survival chance, reinforced cockpit saves 1 wound.

Extended Torso Twist (UrbanMech, Wolverine) -Can twist one hexside further (360 deg?)
No torso twist (Jenner, Cicada, Vindicator, Jagermech, King Crab) –no torso twist

There is a turn radius stat or something like that chassisdef (mechdef?). Has anyone tried to play with it?

Narrow / Low Profile (Locust, Commando, UrbanMech, Dragon) - Penalty to Range attack rolls by enemy (adjust to-hit at range numbers for these mechs?)

Don't think you need to do anything with this one. The game measures LOS from points defined in chassisdef. Each 'mech has different so I assume they are based on models, instead of 'mech weight category. This means it is easier in practice to hide Locust than Atlas. Weight categories already give a penalty/bonus to hit.

Hyper-Extending Actuators (Quickdraw) and Flip arms (Blackjack/Jagermech) –would allow the Battlemech to flip arm weapons into rear arc

Not supported at all? Without a hack at least (an action button that turns you around 180, gives you a shot and then turns you around again 180?).

 

[Justin Kase]

1 - Hmm, maybe add Guts modifier to chassis instead? Guts impacts post battle survival chance, reinforced cockpit saves 1 wound.

2 - There is a turn radius stat or something like that chassisdef (mechdef?). Has anyone tried to play with it?

3 - Not supported at all? Without a hack at least (an action button that turns you around 180, gives you a shot and then turns you around again 180?).

1 - Can we add in the modifiers to a chassis? If so, that opens up some interesting ideas

2 - In playing around with that value, it appeared to have something to do with the animation (I think it was in MoveDef) - but I may be thinking of another value.

3 - I had played around seeing if the Turret 360 could be given to a 'Mech chassis - that might be applicable if we get it to work. Though, that would apply to all weapons on the 'Mech and not just arm weapons. Or, may have to figure a way to add the Turret identifier to the arms.

 

[don Zappo]

I love this idea for Mech Quirks! I'll even contribute my coding skills if easy and needed to make this happen. When I played MWO the addition of quirks was one of my favorite patches of all time.

Weapons (adjust values in weapon json files)
Ammunition Feed Problem (Enforcer/AC10, Centurion/AC10) - Prone to jamming; make another roll to see if system jams – adjust individual weapon stats

To represent this I recommend a large value for refire penalty. This makes the to-hit value have a penalty if you fire it multiple turns in a row.

Anti-Aircraft Targeting (JagerMech, Orion) - More accurate attacks against flying units; proportional to damage potential of unit's ranged weapons – adjust individual weapon stats

I don't think this should be baked in as it doesn't make sense in the current game.

Exposed Weapon Linkage (Firestarter/Flamers, Enforcer/AC10)

- Increase chance of critical hit from enemy attack – adjust individual weapon stats (if possible)

Not sure if this could be done easily. Definitely don't think its doable in the .json. I'll look at the crit code and see if there is some easy way to increase their crit "size" in there.

Fast Reload (Enforcer/AC10, Trebuchet/torso weapons) - Reduces amount of time to reload by half –adjust individual weapon stats (if possible)

Is this reload in-combat, or reload outside of combat? If in-combat then you could simply adjust their refire penalty. If outside, we don't have a re-arm mechanic in this game.

Improved Cooling Jacket (Enforcer/AC10, Griffin/PPC) - Reduces heat generated by weapon by 1 point (3 heat in BT) –adjust individual weapon stats

Easy to do in .jsons.

Improved Targeting - (Panther/short, Centurion/short) - Bonus to at range to-hit numbers –adjust individual weapon stats

Could be added with .dll manipulation.

No / minimal Arms (Locust, UrbanMech, Jenner, Cicada, Catapult, Stalker) - Penalty made to stand up when knocked down; cannot make physical attacks –adjust melee damage/instability/tohitmodifer in chassisdef

This could be added in a .dll when the standing up penalty is used. Make it an increase for these mechs. Don't know about the removal of physical attacks as that is probably more complicated (unless it CAN be done in the chassisdef).

Reinforced Legs (Highlander) - Suffers from only half of normal amount of damage for performing DFA –change DFASelfDamage to 0.5x in chassisdef

Is that just straight up in the chassissdef? If so, that's awesome!

Stable (Dragon, Wolverine) - Gain bonus when force to execute a piloting skill roll as a result of physical attack –increase melee and stability in chassisdef

Yeah, just straight up give them a stability buff.

Weak Head Armor (Catapult) - Head armor that is treated as if it were several points lower than the recorded value –reduce head and/or currentinteralstructure in mechdef

Can you change the maximum values in there? That's the important bit...

Easy to maintain (Spider, Trebuchet, Orion, Zeus) -Bonus to repair and maintain

Could be done in a .dll.

Rugged (Vindicator, Griffin, Kintaro, Thunderbolt, Grasshopper, Orion, Victor, Banshee) - Reduces amount of time between maintenance cycles required

What do you mean by "maintenance cycles?"

Cramped Cockpit (Vindicator,Wolverine) - +1 penalty to piloting rolls

You could give them "Low Spirits" if they are in this mech. Or, more accurately, degrade them one level. High Spirts to no bonus, no bonus to Low Spirits. Alternatively, you could make them count as if they have one less level of piloting than they really have.

Difficult to eject (Vindicator, Highlander) –possible additional damage during ejection

That is hard core. How is this represented in TT?

Distracting (Atlas, Banshee) -Penalty to Morale –say an enemy Atlas could lower your current morale

Now this is one of my favorites from the list. What *could* probably be done is to make the other team suffer -1 morale per turn for every one of these mechs on the opposite team. I do something very similar in my mod (+1 morale per certain tactics level) so as long as I can adjust the other team's morale then this is an easy thing to implement.

Cowl (Highlander) - Provides 3 additional armor points against attack from sides and rear of the head

I think the easiest thing to do is just to give them 3 additional points for max armor on the head.

Extended Torso Twist (UrbanMech, Wolverine) -Can twist one hexside further (360 deg?)
No torso twist (Jenner, Cicada, Vindicator, Jagermech, King Crab) –no torso twist

Uuuuuuuh. Huh. Cool quirks, but don't have a great idea how to implement such a thing in the current state of the game.

Narrow / Low Profile (Locust, Commando, UrbanMech, Dragon) - Penalty to Range attack rolls by enemy (adjust to-hit at range numbers for these mechs?)

Now this could also be done. In the Basic Panic System mod there is an "easier to hit" modifier that gets triggered. I'm sure the reverse of that would work well. Make it harder to-hit if only these mechs are being targeted.

Hyper-Extending Actuators (Quickdraw) and Flip arms (Blackjack/Jagermech) –would allow the Battlemech to flip arm weapons into rear arc

This would also be very cool. It could be implemented in the code, but I don't know how easily...


Anyways, if you want my help let me know. Prioritize a list of .dll coding changes you would want and I'll work my way through it.

If you want to create a team for this, I think that would be a good idea. I host a dropbox for collaborative projects and I think something similar would be a very good idea. This absolutely would need to have @Justin Kase 's and @GenTask 's mods folded in as well.

 

[don Zappo]

3 - I had played around seeing if the Turret 360 could be given to a 'Mech chassis - that might be applicable if we get it to work. Though, that would apply to all weapons on the 'Mech and not just arm weapons. Or, may have to figure a way to add the Turret identifier to the arms.

Turret identifier to the arm weapons? That... is brilliant in its insanity and might actually work. The game clearly checks to see if the weapons are arm mounted to give a to-hit bonus. So, there is a call for such shenanigans to take place.

 

[Justin Kase]

Not only is the cooling jacket easy to do in JSONs, we've already got an example in the Binary Laser Cannon + (with the -3 heat)

 

[Yeach]

There is a turn radius stat or something like that chassisdef (mechdef?). Has anyone tried to play with it?

Tried it; doesn't do anything.

@don Zappo

Easy to maintain (Spider, Trebuchet, Orion, Zeus) -Bonus to repair and maintain

Rugged (Vindicator, Griffin, Kintaro, Thunderbolt, Grasshopper, Orion, Victor, Banshee)

- Reduces amount of time between maintenance cycles required

They could be probably be interpreted the same way.

Say the maintenance is 2k per month
For Easy to maintain, the bonus would be a reduction say 1k per month
For Rugged, the bonus would be you don't have to do it every month but every 2nd month so 2k every second month.
Both end up being the same maintenance cost 2k for 2 month.
-easy to maintain would also get the bonus of refit costing less or taking less time

But for this we have to go by targeting specific mechs chassis and can't go by tonnage like this mod
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...osts-based-on-the-mech-chassis-price.1097075/

Cowl - Provides 3 additional armor points against attack from sides and rear of the head

I think the easiest thing to do is just to give them 3 additional points for max armor on the head.

Maybe that is a start with a proviso, that a head hit from the front would bypass the 3 points.
Ugh I don't want to give a mech additional head armor in the case that even a Gauss Rifle 15 TT damage would not be able to head-hunt.


Anyways due to the limited headspace of a mech, I've been thinking of allowing cockpit mods to be allowed in the centre torso; most stock mechs that have a weapon in the head slot usually have a free torso slot with the main exception being the the Grasshopper.

Further along I was also thinking of putting Gyros (reduced to 2 slots) with +% stability on all mechs so that they could be knocked out by critical hits and their stability bonus would also be removed in the spirit of Battletech lore.

If you read enough Battletech novels, you will read about knocking out an opposing mech's Gyro and they become unstable and sometimes fall down.