militia + brigade

[al3lka]

I don't know if this is a bug or not, but it come to my attention that when I want to create militia + armor car, the total IC is increase. I notice that if I create other military + AC or other brigade, the total IC needed is always less than it division's IC + it bridge's IC.

Thanks and sorry for my bad english.

Oh, by the way, I'm still using 1.06 version.

 

[Pang Bingxun]

Militia may be build in half the days ac needs. So if Mil-Ac costs 3 times the ic mil-none costs nothing is wrong, is it?

 

[mcganyol]

this is again the retooling problem, as i already pointed out here in some previous post with adequate math. (here: http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?619602-retooling-divs-with-brigades )
I already pointed out an easy (tough still not very accurate) solution, and the more complicated resolution which would guarantee the price for being the same for the same builds.

al3lka maybe tried to say if he wants to build 1 militia-ac it will be more costly than if you build the same division and the same brigade separately. what is true.

(without any slider, minister, tech etc modifier) (ICD=IndustrialCapacityDays)
1mil 30days, 2.7IC = 81 ICD
1ac 40days retooling plus 60days, 3IC = 300ICD
total cost if builded separately = 381 ICD

1mil-ac 40days retooling plus 30days, 8.7IC = 609 ICD

So you have builded the same thing together for 609 ICD and separately for 381 ICD. I think it is a very serious issue. It encourages (unnecessary) micromanagment what is not a good thing imo.

It is a worst case scenario with militia (no retooling) but you always pay more if you build brigades and divisions together. especially at production start and when "upgrading the line".
All this mess is caused by the retooling time (introduced in AoD).

 

[al3lka]

Guys, i will give example for this. this number taken from Iron Cross (since I just upgrade my AOD to Iron Cross yesterday), from scenarion 1936, USA.
Required
IC
-----------------------------
unit | no AC | with AC |
-----------------------------
INF | 10 IC | 10.9 IC |
cav | 11 IC | 11.9 IC |
Mil | 4.3 IC | 6.4 IC |
----------------------------
while AC it self cost 1.9.
See what I meant? Militia+AC is more than militia it self added with AC (6.4 > 4.3 + 1.9). While inf and cav if added with AC, required less IC than if inf or cav and AC produced seperately. (11.9 < 11 + 1.9 & 10.9 < 10+1.9).

 

[Pang Bingxun]

Actually your example proves(?) that you save ic. 1936 Militia needs 30 days at 3 ic per unit. 1937 AC needs 60 days at 3 ic per unit. So as a fair price Militia-AC should cost 3x4.3 IC. Iron Cross obviosly used different values, i cannot help you at those specifics.

 

[mcganyol]

ok, then i misunderstood your first post.

What is important is not only the IC cost of the unit but the days you should spend that IC is also an important factor.
If something costs 10IC for 5 days, it is exactly the same as if 5IC for 10days.
So a unit real "price" can only be determined by IC * DAYS usually shortened by ICD.
An infantry takes longer time to build than militia and that's why the increase in IC cost should be lower for a brigaded inf than a brigaded mil.

I hope it answers your question. An armored car brigade SHOULD cost the same no matter with what division you build it. but because other divsions takes different times to build, hence the difference in IC cost, to have the same product at the end.

 

[al3lka]

ok I understand Mcganyol.