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Nov 20, 2000
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I have just recently heard about EU and I am really astonished about the game. As a Catalan I am really interested about the possibility of playing minor nations. Does the Kingdom of Catalonia-Aragon exist in the game or do its territories appear just as provinces of the Habsburgs Spain? What about the Kingdom of Navarra? Are any Catalan-Aragonese generals and admirals registered? Should this Kingdom exist in the game, what are its relations with France like? What about its diplomacy?

I would be very grateful if you could answer these questions. And in case it is so, please let me know how I do it. I am wishing to thank our beloved Spain :rolleyes: the invasion & sacking of Barcelona, capital of Catalonia, in 1714. Mercès!

llll
 
Originally posted by Baptista_Basset:
llll

I have just recently heard about EU and I am really astonished about the game. As a Catalan I am really interested about the possibility of playing minor nations. Does the Kingdom of Catalonia-Aragon exist in the game or do its territories appear just as provinces of the Habsburgs Spain? What about the Kingdom of Navarra? Are any Catalan-Aragonese generals and admirals registered? Should this Kingdom exist in the game, what are its relations with France like? What about its diplomacy?

I would be very grateful if you could answer these questions. And in case it is so, please let me know how I do it. I am wishing to thank our beloved Spain :rolleyes: the invasion & sacking of Barcelona, capital of Catalonia, in 1714. Mercès!

llll

remember this is just a game, not the solution to avenge 'lost' battles. Nationalism is a post 1789-disease, so nothing to do in this game (1492-1792), utterly 'anacronisme' . :rolleyes:
regards
Alzate
 
Navarre exists as a separate Kingdom. Aragon can declare independence. (After revolts, of course.) Catalonia I am not sure about.

/Doomie
 
I am pretty sure catalonia can declare independance aswell. I will have to check this tonight. If I recall correctly though, they can...

After all, I don't think Paradox wants to upset the plethora of nationalistic guerillas/terrorists/freedomfighters at work in Spain... :D

[This message has been edited by Jinxed (edited 21-11-2000).]
 
Thank you for the answers. I would like to comment, too, that my goal is not politics at all. This is indeed just a game. About the 'anacronism' to which Alzate refers, I would like to make some things clear (guys, now you can learn a little bit more about European history!):

Catalonia-Aragon, an Alliance of Hispanic Kingdoms, accepted a matrimonial union with Castille in 1476, with the result that all Kingdoms of Spain became united under the house of Habsburg. That means: dynastic union, not political annexation. I don't think Canada nor Australia ARE at all effects England just because they share a Monarch (indeed it implies a narrow liation). Under Emperor Charles V, for example, Austria and Spain shared a Monarch, however Austria remained Austria, and Spain, Spain. In the Catalan-Aragonese Kingdoms Catalan remained the only official language and the only authority able to pass laws was the Parlament of every Catalan Kingdom (Aragon, Catalonia, Valencia and Mallorca)

As an example, the Colonization of the New World was a Castillan enterprise, and no Catalan nor Austrian nor Dutch subjects were allowed to make profit with the American trade, as they were considered foreigners, although they shared a Monarch. The Habsburg attempted repeatedly to abolish the Catalan states and turn them into provinces of a greater Spain, with little success due to the flourishing economy of the Catalan trade with the Mediterranean -with Barcelona and Valencia as its main ports- and to the skills of talented lawyers and deputies.

The Catalans revolted however many times -not for independence (they were), but against the rule of the King. In 1519-1521 because they were forced to fight the French (the Catalan laws said no one could be forced to fight in a foreign province against his will); in 1640 the Catalan Parliament considered that the Habsburgs hadn't satisfied their royal duties and elected as new Monarch the French Sun-King Louis XIV. The Castillans invaded Catalonia and France kept Roussilion. However, the Kingdom remained once more independent -'pacificated'-, though weakened.

After the last Spanish Habsburg -Charles the II- died in 1700, the Great Council of Castille chose Sun-King's nephew Philip d'Anjou to succeed the Habsburg dynasty. The Catalan Kingdoms, fearing French centralism, and making use of their institutional freedom, chose the Archduke of Austria -future Kaiser Charles VI- as Monarch, which meant the Spanish War of Succession between ca. 1700-1716. Castille and France faced Catalonia-Aragon, Austria, England, the Netherlands and Portugal (who feared a great French-Spanish power). After Castille-France won the war a peace was negotiated in which Austria got Sicily, England Gibraltar plus trade freedom with the Spanish America, and Castille got Catalonia-Aragon. Then and only then became all laws abolished and the Catalans considered as mere Castillan subjects.

For those who say that I may commit 'anachronism', I must insist on the fact that there is no such a thing as a Spanish state before 1716. The strength with which the Catalan chancelleries defended till the last point and comma of the Catalan Carta Magna (called 'Furs') in front of the pretensions of an absolut Monarch who wanted to unify all the Spanish Kingdoms under one (that is, Castille, of course) is out of consideration as 'guerrilla-freedomfighters', but as a Maquiavellian use of diplomacy, political institutions and inner Law. Catalonia-Aragon were an Alliance of states with the same King as Castille, not Castille; as Austria was a state with the same king as Spain, and not Spain.

Thank you once more for all the answers. I'll check your commentaries and promise that when I get the game the alliance of Castille with Catalonia won't be a bed of roses for the superb 'Conquistadores'... :)
 
It was the kingdom of Aragon, never of Catalonia (where do you read that?).
Aragon was the main name of the kings ( Peter III of Aragon, II of Valencia, II of Mallorca....never of Catalonia, only Count of Barcelona)
In Italia there are a lot of cities with 'quartiere aragonese' that show who had the power.
Today Aragon is a region in decline, but History must not be manipulate.
 
Hi guys:
i fear that we can spare our friends north pf the pyrinees of another round of Iberian infighting over the 'correct interpretation of the past'.
if you want to keep this rosy and heroic view of the past over alternative analysis , it's OK. :) it' no point in arguing.
just two points:
1. Spanish state-building followed the same route as the French, English or Russian ones: from a patchwork of jurisdictions, fiefs, cities and 'royaumes' towards increasing royal absolutism and the abolition of local liberties; the main objective was to raise more taxes for waging war. only that the Spanish state has not being so efficient in doing so.
2. don't think of that 'local liberties' as anywhere near of democracy. they protected local elites' privileges; some of this local 'notables' opposed fiercely the Court's attempts to increase their tax base and other helped the latter to implement the unification.
'people' had not a lot to say in this clash, except as cannonfodder.

regards
Alzate, an European fed up with Nationalistic manipulations of History.
 
I am sorry I disagree with the consideration of the ancient local laws as something medieval and obscure. The Navarrese laws, for instance, were given by the Kings in an attempt to avoid feudalisation and to inforce the royal role in front of an always disturbing nobility. They made possible parliaments (Castille I think had none), like in Catalonia. Of course it was not modern democracy, but what came later with the 'enlightment' wasn't either (absolutism, centralism vs. home rule and negotiation).

It is true that the Spanish state is a creation of the Bourbon dynasty in the XVIIIth century, and never before, like modern History proves (see Britannica). Hence the only 'nationalistic' history I know is the one the Spaniards teach. It ain't new that History is mostly written by the (war)winners...

Anyway enjoy the game :)
 
I have made a scenario about Iberic kingdoms (Aragon, Spain-Castilla, Portugal, Navarra and Granada). My pages are now down. If anyone of you are interested in this, just send me an e-mail.

By the way, Bassat, you shouldn't think that in Aragon Kingdom (not Catalonian), everyone spoke català (Zaragoza, Huesca, Teruel...)

If someone like it, I could make a Catalonian scenario. It's quite easy.
 
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OK Thank you for your comments. When I say Catalan was the official language I mean, of course, the language of the Court and the Chancellery, since the notion of 'official language' is a modern one.

I am most grateful for your help, guys. Who knows, perhaps I may join the imperial glory of Castille as an allie after all, since we share a Monarch... or I may intend to extend the Catalan rule till the very gates of Istanbul as once! ;)
 
I have been considering writing an EU editor so that you could easily recreate Aragon or Catalonia or any other country that is in the game but not necessarily on the map. This project is months away however so you would have to edit the text files for the time being.

BTW, I am considering adding a randomizer to the editor and one of the items on the list is to randomize Iberia. Who knows what strange combinations of Castille, Aragon, Catalonia, Portugal, Navarre and Granada could appear (assuming I can get it work)?

Thanks for the history lesson.