modules: ship_modifier versus modifier; findings and bugs

[Guilliman88]

Greetings!

I'm the developer of the Crystallis ship modules mod ( https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=690350384 )

I'd like to talk about modifiers that apply in the game trough ship modules.

My current findings are these:
Both ship_modifier and modifier work for some modifiers.
Other modifiers seem to only work using the ship_modifier.
Some modifiers do not work at all!

When using the modifier one, it updates in the ship builder ui and in space ui. Ship_modifiers on modules however don't always update ui. This is very frustrating at times.

I will go over the modifiers I have used and what works and what doesnt.

The following modifiers work with "modifier = {}" some of these seem to work with ship_modifier as well but the ship ui doesn't always update/show it.

• ship_upkeep_mult = -0.10
• ship_armor_add = 10
• ship_hitpoints_add = 1500
• ship_shield_hp_mult = -0.33
• ship_evasion_mult = 0.05
• ship_evasion_add = 5
• ship_combat_speed_mult = 0.2
• ship_speed_mult = 0.15
• ship_auto_repair_add = 0.02
• ship_hitpoints_mult = 0.2
• ship_armor_mult = 0.10
• ship_shield_regen_add_perc = 0.2 (not sure about this one yet)

The following modifiers only work with "ship_modifier = {}"

• ship_fire_rate_mult = 0.05
• ship_weapon_damage = 0.15
• ship_accuracy_add = 3
  
• ship_sensor_range_mult = 0.25

These however do not update any ui in the ship builder, but do update in space. I understand thats somewhat normal behaviour but it's odd that these modifiers have to have ship_modifier.

These modifiers do not work at all regardless of using modifier ={} or ship_modifier = {}

• science_ship_survey_speed = 0.2
• ship_anomaly_fail_risk = -0.05
• ship_anomaly_generation_chance_mult = 0.05

I'm sure some other science related ones do not work this way either (bug?). It's really limiting modding a lot.

Does anyone else have any use full data on this? Also I hope this can help some people who have issues with ship modules and modifiers

 

[Foraven]

From my experience, anything you can use with "add" also work with "mult", but i found mult is better used on ship/station hulls rather than on components but can still work.

 

[Drosofeelsia]

So, just to clarify, if you were going to add an empire modifier that gave all ships within the empire

• ship_weapon_damage = 0.15

How would you go about doing that?

 

[Foraven]

So, just to clarify, if you were going to add an empire modifier that gave all ships within the empire

• ship_weapon_damage = 0.15

How would you go about doing that?

Look at existing tech, you have some that add 5% already, adding one that does 15% is a no brainer.

 

[Drosofeelsia]

Look at existing tech, you have some that add 5% already, adding one that does 15% is a no brainer.

I thought those techs didn't work in the base game? Similar to the aggressive combat AI?

 

[Foraven]

I thought those techs didn't work in the base game? Similar to the aggressive combat AI?

I know they are there and that they show up in-game, but i never played long enough to actually use them. Just try and see if it works (it should, but it will show in space, not on ship designs).

 

[RadioactiveHellion]

After a few frustrating hours trying to make the weapons_range_mult work via ship_modifier I think Paradox needs to make it a priority to revisit all of its modifiers and make sure they're functioning correctly and consistently. Some modifiers that appear in the UI do not work at all in-game, and I feel like some of the problems with defensive platforms being unable to cover each other is that they're listed to have 'ship_weapon_range_mult = 0.20' but that tag doesn't seem to work. I'm also wondering if the games where I got repeated tech levels didn't update fleet power because of bug with the formula or if they didn't work at all.

 

[Foraven]

After a few frustrating hours trying to make the weapons_range_mult work via ship_modifier I think Paradox needs to make it a priority to revisit all of its modifiers and make sure they're functioning correctly and consistently. Some modifiers that appear in the UI do not work at all in-game, and I feel like some of the problems with defensive platforms being unable to cover each other is that they're listed to have 'ship_weapon_range_mult = 0.20' but that tag doesn't seem to work. I'm also wondering if the games where I got repeated tech levels didn't update fleet power because of bug with the formula or if they didn't work at all.

Nice catch. I always assumed they worked and did make my mod around them. I guess i will have to check that out as well.

 

[RadioactiveHellion]

I did a few tests using different weapon ranges and modifiers and compared when ships fired Tachyon Lasers to (modified range 8x) Marauder Missiles, as well as gauging by ship aura range, but didn't get anywhere. I thought maybe the fleet wasn't engaging at its full range so I attempted to increase the combat initiation range but still nada unfortunately.

 

[Foraven]

I did a few tests using different weapon ranges and modifiers and compared when ships fired Tachyon Lasers to (modified range 8x) Marauder Missiles, as well as gauging by ship aura range, but didn't get anywhere. I thought maybe the fleet wasn't engaging at its full range so I attempted to increase the combat initiation range but still nada unfortunately.

From what i understand, ships will fire at enemies in range, behavior will only make them try to stay at a certain range but they won't hold fire. So i guess you are right, that modifier don't work.