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Mr.Bigglesworth

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Dec 23, 2002
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The MP forums have been a little quiet lately, so I thought I would try to get some discussions going. As anyone that has played MP can tell you, it requires a whole new set of strategies than were used in SP. So, what are your general strategies for newbies or players unfamiliar with playing as Germany?
 
Umm, ok, this thread might get long...
Assuming the Soviets don't declare war on you, taking Austria and Hungary are nice and easy things to do with your starting army. And taking Belgium is nice if the Allies don't declare war on you (Remember to annex the nation too, there's just a few provinces in Congo, easily rechable by tanks)
Screw the Kriegsmarine. And Nuclear techs. A naval doctrines. And, umm, well, there's simply so many possibileties with Germany.
 
In SP, it is ok in the '36 scenario to get away with not building any units for a while and just researching. However, in MP the other countries are looking for any signs of weakness. Yesterday in mid-'37, Germany had yet to build a single new unit, and the Soviet Union with 110 divisions came through and cleaned up the axis.
 
That is why I think it is best to play the '39 Blitz scenerio. Having war break out prior to the invasion of Poland in '39 seems crazy to me anyway. If I play the '36 scenerio I'd like to have a house rule of no engagements until Germany attacks Poland.

I haven't played a MP game on v1.3 yet, but I've been testing out single player Germany games quite a bit. I believe this German strategy should be effective in MP games as well, although a human Russian player could seriously disrupt things. Crush Poland as quickly as possible and immediately turn on France. Leave a decent defense on the Russian front to keep them honest. If Russia is AI, honor the MR pact to keep the peace for now, if human, take the land. Drive through Belgium and head straight for Paris. Once you take Paris, set up Vichy. It will save you time and resources and let you set you sites Eastward very quickly. Take out the Netherlands as most of your troops head back to Russia. I never bother with the Swiss. In the '39 scenerio I divert one of my Panzergroupes and a decent number of infantry south to move through Yugoslavia, Bulgaria, and Greece quickly. In v1.02 I used to annex Romania, but in v1.03 I have been bringing them to my alliance. Once this is done you can spend some serious effort building up your Armies in preparation for an on/from Russia, along with building up you navy in preparation for operation Sealion. As that buildup continues you can work on annexing Turkey, Iraq, Sweden, and Finland. Allying with Italy will be key to weakening the British. You can do this after you Vichy France and invade Yugoslavia to get the most resources for yourself. However, if Russia and Italy are human players then you will want to Ally immediately and split the resources of France, the Baltics and Africa.

Once you get a decent number of high powered tanks and mechs start the assault on Russia and don't stop until you get the bitter peace. After that building up your amphibious forces for attacks on UK and the USA will be easy.

This is of couse mostly theory, and I would like to put it to the test! :)
 
Nice Theory, although I somehow belive that even in the case that the Soviets do not DoW you or take some of those nations, by the time you are pushing into Russia there might be some heavy attempts at invading France...
 
Well, if you play the '39 scenerio and Russia is the only non-Axis human player on the European mainland then Poland, France, Yugoslavia, Bulgaria, the Netherlands, Denmark, and Greece can all be annexed by the end of 1939. I just did it last night. Even if it takes more time than that, the Allies won't be able to launch a serious assault on France until late in 1940, which gives you plenty of time to fortify the French coastline as well.

If France and Russia have human players, then you will need a strong human player in Italy to make sure the European conquest goes quickly.
 
Germany "blitzing" through Europe

having been the German player Bigglesworth is talking about (matt here) I can assure you Germany cannot "race" through Poland, ignore Russia and then turn around and crush France. Especially when France is a human player.

And I did go with the "all research" strategy that definately doesn't work v. humans in the 36 screnario. Does work great in SP though.

Poland was actually an Axis member in that game as well (human) which got absolutely crushed when the USSR invaded (with their ally France who had left the allies and joined the Comintern). My german defenders on the Polish border were overrun in the south by Russian armor that then procede to roll on Berlin. By the time I had detached units from the front to secure the area around Berlin the Russians were attacking across the board and the French were overruning the (stripped) German western front. Couple this with the allies declaring war and landing troops on the Baltic coast and Yugoslavia... you get my point. SP German strategies don't work in MP
 
Re: Germany "blitzing" through Europe

Originally posted by Diefledermas
having been the German player Bigglesworth is talking about (matt here) I can assure you Germany cannot "race" through Poland, ignore Russia and then turn around and crush France. Especially when France is a human player.

Actually, my prior post was before we played our game Matt. In the game I was talking about I was UK. However, in our game a similar situation occured, so that just goes to show how prevalent that is, where the German player will research too much.
 
Originally posted by Spudman
That is why I think it is best to play the '39 Blitz scenerio. Having war break out prior to the invasion of Poland in '39 seems crazy to me anyway. If I play the '36 scenerio I'd like to have a house rule of no engagements until Germany attacks Poland.

I have a couple of issues with '39, but intead of turning this thread into a 36 vs. 39 debate, I created a new thread. :)

http://www.europa-universalis.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=70342

Spudman, that house rule gives a huge advantage to the Germans. Being able to one hundred percent dictate the start of war is not very realistic. The Germans and the Russians were huge enemies, which is why Hitler knew he had to make a deal with them in order to go into Poland and then France. German players in the game rarely make any diplomatic overtures to the Russian player at all, and dishonoring M-R is a sure way to piss them off.
 
so I'm not the only Furher to commit suicide in the bunker in 37

hah, ok Big, I wondered about the date. rest assured this time no such luck blitizing Germany!
 
In the '39 game, if the Germans don't get Poland and France out of the game very early, then they don't have a chance. Hiding behind Poland is only going to give the Russian more time to build an Army to attack you, and a shorter path to Berlin. I agree that if their is a human player in both France and Russia that things will be very difficult for Germany. However, if there is a human player in Italy then that should balance things out. I played a MP 39 game as Germany where by the time I finished off Poland and turned my attention to France, Italy already had half of France occupied. I had to race in there just to get a few provinces for myself.

My point being, there really wouldn't be much time for the Russian play to do much damage in the East.
 
A human Italy does make things a little easier for Germany but your comment on Italy taking on France by itself (if France is human) seems a little streched. A human France with its inherent technological advantages could definately hold the Italians at bay or even take ground with no threat in the Ardennes/Belgium.

If France is AI then I can see Spud's scenario happening.
 
Originally posted by Spudman
In the '39 game, if the Germans don't get Poland and France out of the game very early, then they don't have a chance.

This sounds surprising to me. :eek: I suppose it depends on the number of players.

2 players: I do not really think anybody stands a chance against Germany, regardless if the human opponent is Russia, UK or US. You must really have balls (or be suicidal) to play MP 1:1 against Germany. :)

3 players: A Russia/UK team will still go under, I believe, because the Brits are so weak. Russia/France might work, but only barely; I don´t see them having a large advantage, even with a neutral Italy. What do you do if the German player kills Poland, dishonours MR and immediately attacks Russia? Will the French Blitz into Berlin? I somehow doubt it. :D
 
One thing to keep in mind is in 36, Germany really doesn't have that much firepower. You can blitz into Poland immediately and win (if you really want to) but you'll only be able to leave a token force on the French border. If the Allies DoW you they'll most likely be able to overrun some of Germany until you can move your forces back west. If Russia decides to take advantage of this, you're done.
 
Well Diefledermas, the game I played in did have a human player in France as well as UK and USSR. So it was them against just me and the human in Italy. I guess the player was too concerned with the Maginot line and the north and totally ignored the south. Their were lots of Italian divisions EVERYWHERE in France! I'm not sure exactly what he did, but he threw everything he had at the French and beat them down. As I said, I had very little to do with it. He probably could have taken all of France on his own.
 
Originally posted by Diefledermas
A human France with its inherent technological advantages could definately hold the Italians at bay or even take ground with no threat in the Ardennes/Belgium.

If France is AI then I can see Spud's scenario happening.

I've seen a French player take all 32 or so divisions in France and put them in Strasbourg on the Maginot. Never underestimate the power of a newbie. :)
 
Hmmm... maybe the problem was the (human) French player had French troops.

"french rifle, perfect condition, only dropped once"

or was that the Italian army... never could remember.

- I guess the real "answer" is that Germany CAN defeat any single neighbor it chooses BUT those chooses will have concequences that could spell the Fatherland's own doom if not properly executed.
 
Originally posted by Diefledermas
- I guess the real "answer" is that Germany CAN defeat any single neighbor it chooses BUT those chooses will have concequences that could spell the Fatherland's own doom if not properly executed.

Still, what position would you choose in 39 to fight Germany 1:1?

I think there isn´t a good answer to that. :D
 
Given that in single-player you can conquer the world as Germany if you have both eyes shut and just randomly click on the screen, I would guess in multi-player one eye open and random clicking on the screen would probably win a 1 on 1 game :)

If you are playing Germany and you have human players in the Soviet Union and 2 Allied majors then I would suggest that you spend all of the pre-war period building up your army, then wait until after you conquer Poland to attack France (just like in history). This will probably result in the French player having time to move all his units to his front line with you. Blitz through one section of his line and capture Paris with infantry while cutting the supply of the Maginot line with your tanks. A human France probably won't accept Vichy, but if he does, all you need to do is fortify your beaches and leave a few German divisions in France while you prepare for war on the Soviet Union. If the human France doesn't accept Vichy, then use fast units to capture the unprotected sections of France (the human will probably have almost all his troops on the front-line, which you have previously encircled and denied supply). Start mass tac-bombing the maginot line, and only attack when from your tac-bombing you know that the French troops have almost no organisation. Roll up their entire line in this fashion.

The UK will not be able to build large a enough army to threaten you in Western Europe for years. Unless you have a human US, you can probably just fortify the beaches, and leave some infantry there and in key points, creating an Atlantic Wall.

Deal with the Soviet Union. Unless there is a human US, the Allies stand a very poor chance of being able to threaten you in Western Europe. The Soviet player will probably accept the Bitter Peace because it really isn't too bad a deal for them, it will still leave them with a reasonable amount of ICs especially if they moved their industry to Siberia and upgraded their ICs from the start. Once the Soviets accept Bitter Peace, you should be able to bring most of your armies back from the East to mount an invasion of the UK or just to defend yourself until the end of the game.

Another piece of advice - contribute to Italy's effort in North Africa with whatever spare armies you have. The longer the British are tied up in North Africa, the longer you have before you have to deal with them invading you, since their manpower will probably preclude them from being able to build large armies for both theatres.