Multi-Empire Planets (Gameplay Discussion Only)

[Galle]

The last thread on this issue was closed for descending into real-world politics, largely because for some reason people insisted on discussing the "realism" of a world government. This is a shame, because this is a pretty interesting topic to talk about, from a gameplay perspective. So, take it as a given in this thread that whether or not a world government is "realistic" is irrelevant. Just treat it as an acceptable abstraction and move on. Do not discuss the issue further or this thread will get locked, too.

Some acceptable topics for this thread include:

• Would allowing multiple empires to hold territory on the same planet make the game more or less fun?
• In what sort of ways might it make the game more or less fun?
• Should Paradox add this feature in a future DLC?
• How might we achieve a similar effect through modding, given what we now know?

I suggest people who are not already familiar with it look into Emperor of the Fading Suns, which to my knowledge is the only game thus far to have this feature.

 

[TheAnguishedOne]

The feature, going by how it is portrayed in Emperor of the Fading Suns, looks perfect for Stellaris. If it isn't in the base game, it'd be perfect for DLC.

I do believe it would make the game more fun, as it's more interaction between empires. So many events could come from multiple empires holding territory on the same planet. Disputes over how to treat primitive natives or distribution of resources alone could lead to trading treaties or war.

 

[AllenY]

I think it would be a shame not to have it. It surely couldn't be that hard to just assign given planetary tiles to one side or another, could it? And, if it's not in the game, it could be easily modded I would imagine by doing just that.

 

[Milten]

So it's basically next step in shared star systems, which is probably already a reason for De jure war. What purpose should it serve exactly?
I'm not even talking about plausibility of it, when colonists and colonial defense fleet on orbit watch with poker-face how some other empire comes and starts building it's own settlement right to them.

 

[Danarcis]

I have thought of the idea, of being the only planet that has reached space travel.. Having several factions on that singular planet, then inhabit the entire universe would be a really cool idea. With different parties on your planet uplifting other species and having very different approaches. It could be fun, or messy

 

[Alectron]

Perhaps different tiles of the planets can be sold by owner to other empires. The man owner of the planet would get extra money/energy, while the empire which bought a tile would have a place where to station its troops and fleet.

 

[Jamey]

My first concern with this would be UI. It would need to be represented in a way that is clear, unlike (for example) CK2, where figuring out which barony you don't own (say, if you want to make certain decisions) requires you to zoom way in on the map and search for a little shield.

My second concern is what this feature would actually add to improve gameplay. I see it as likely to annoy me more than make the game more fun.

My third concern is whether the AI will be able to deal with it.

 

[Tankist/45]

I would like it. Lets say up to 6 parts for biggest planets. 4-5 parts for an medium planet like Earth. No partition for moons.
Which advantages i think of:
-Multi-empire planets. Think of Multiplayer games where only one of 32 players can play our beloved Earth, its more fun when some Earth players try to unite the Earth under own banner or cooperating together forming Earth alliance.
-Spacerace scenarios!
-Land armies being more than spacefleet's attached brigade. At least little bit of space for basic maneuvering.

 

[Teleros]

Would allowing multiple empires to hold territory on the same planet make the game more or less fun?

If an optional part of the game, I think it would make it more fun (I want at least one game where I start out as one modern Earth nation competing against other modern Earth nations, for example). I can see it being frustrating if it's mandatory however.

In what sort of ways might it make the game more or less fun?

I think it would add a degree of realism, eg for a dis-united Earth start. The political and diplomatic aspects of such worlds would also be presumably quite important.

The downside is that it would require quite a lot of work to make it playable. If you use planet-killers on such a world, then it needs to be destroyed for everyone using it. Individual powers on said world need to be able to build their stuff without crowding out other powers' building slots etc (or surrounding the planet with a couple of dozen ring systems worth of orbiting cities ). The population cap needs to be respected by all powers... etc.

Should Paradox add this feature in a future DLC?

Yes.

 

[-5k-]

Would that mean that more than one empire could colonize a planet? If so that be a good reason to start a war.

 

[machinekng13]

I like the idea of being able to buy/demand one or more tiles from the planets' owner. The planet would only technically belong to one empire, but they might sell off a trade port or the rights to mine a valuable resource, or perhaps the right to base a space station in order to protect trade flowing through the province. If its' not in the core game, it's a feature I could see being added later on.

 

[cold warpgates]

I think it could be represented by having ownership of specific tiles, not the entire planet. All of the tiles you have on a planet would be your 'colony' (or settlement, or whatever word). Basically, the planet is a geographical thing and colonies are political. There could be multiple colonies (each from a different empire) on the same planet.

This would be really, really cool for some scenarios, but I'm worried that most of the time it would just be annoying. You really wouldn't want to deal with dumb AIs (or annoying players) constantly grabbing tiles in your planet before you could fill them. Maybe you can claim tiles/the rest of the planet even if you don't yet control them? There would need to be some minimum size requirement for your colony, otherwise everyone would claim the whole planet as soon as they took one tile and there would never be any shared planets.

I think even if these ideas were in the game, planet sharing would be very rare, and it would be a very unstable situation - before too long, one of the powers is going to get tired of sharing and kick the other one out. It might not be worth the investment in dev time for all the headache.

It would be really, really sweet for some pre-set starts, though.

*Maybe* modders could jury-rig something by having multiple planets stacked on top of each other and somehow connected for land troops?

 

[RebelScum88]

I really like this idea, and i hope PDX figures out a way to implement it, but I'm uncertain it would be practical based on what weve seen so far.
We do know that systems can be claimed using influence points, and presumably they wouldnt have added this mechanic if it didnt save the planet for your colonization. This rules out multiple colonizers.

We saw in the IGN videos that habitable planets at this time are fairly rare, we only saw one in the system they showed us, and that one required tech to settle. As the inhabited world would be the basis of ownership of the system, it would be difficult to divide a system, unless we do see worlds with more than one habitable planet that can be conquered.

We don't know enough about ground combat to say for sure how a planet could be divided. Perhaps the invaders land on a tile on the end of the row and fight their way down rows to "conquer" the planet. The defenders could then retreat from a tile after X many casualties or as a tactical choice, perhaps saving their forces for a tile with a fort for a defensive bonus. We simply don't know enough yet.

 

[Kanaric]

this kind of game wouldn't feel conductive to gameplay that would be required to properly implement multi empire planets. When I think of something like that i'm thinking of Empire of the Fading Suns where you have very detailed (civilization like) planet maps.

I actually even hate multi empire systems. It's annoying in games when you have other empires colonizing your claimed systems. One thing I like about Distant Worlds was that once you control a region nobody can colonize in it. Rather than the patchwork garbage that happens on games like Galciv 3

 

[machinekng13]

I actually even hate multi empire systems. It's annoying in games when you have other empires colonizing your claimed systems. One thing I like about Distant Worlds was that once you control a region nobody can colonize in it. Rather than the patchwork garbage that happens on games like Galciv 3

I do think there could be some interesting gameplay here, however. Lets' say that you had a system with an outer ring Tundra world and an inner ring Desert world, that are subsequently colonized by different species. The system could be a contentious border area, providing interesting conflict or maybe even sparking an intra/inter federation diplomatic crisis. Or maybe the colonists on both of these plants, through trade and cultural exchange, become closer to each other than either of their distant parent empires, and decided to secede and form an independent republic.

Yeah, could be a bit annoying, but with a decent UI I think it could make for interesting and organic gameplay.

 

[Supercooldragn]

If done right it could make for some fun interactions, if rushed or thrown in it would probably be annoying and frustrating more than anything else.

It could make the game more fun by adding events and an influence race to dominate the planet, but it would be frustrating to have started a colony on a world and then another empire comes and takes over part of it that has good resources before you can build on them

a DLC focused on it could be fun. I think you should need to give/get permission to get tiles on an already claimed world and it should probably only be available to trade or culture focused empires. basically there needs to be good reasons for sharing on both sides. Interplanetary war isn't going to result in two sides sharing land on a single planet aside from in very unusual circumstances, and established colonists would almost certainly have the means for preventing anyone else from establishing holdings without military backing which would almost certainly remove/subjugate the established colonists unless there was good reason to keep them there and independent.

 

[Orctavius]

I do not think Stellaris should include multiple empire planets. The game is too zoomed out for this to be interesting. It will be more annoying than fun. Mostly, I think about baronies in CKII and how annoying it is when they're sworn to someone other than their de jure count. I expect multiple empire planets to be equally annoying. Maybe more so.

 

[bitmapmedivh]

I would support the option for multiple empires to settle the same world. It increases gameplay options in several categories:

First of all, war. Planets settled by several empires could give the options for localised wars of single planets.Wars and diplomatic crisis' can spark between different colonies on the same planet.

Secondly, I'm thinking of both diplomacy and trade. Multi-empire worlds can be the result of de-militarized neutral zones between empires, for example. Treaties of various types can be about how the planet is divided between the empires. 50/50, 25/75 or something else? Don't you have enough resources to build up a complete colony to support your military resupply base on a fringe world? Make a treaty with the neighbouring friendly empire, and give them the ability to build up a colony you can trade with. On the other hand, do you want a far-reaching trade and fleet supply network across the galaxy, or within your Federation for that matter, but don't want to spend decades and massive resources to conquer your way across the galaxy, prefering an informal empire instead? Then make treaties with the lesser empires to establish key colonies on their territory.

 

[Ingros]

Hmm.. we know that certain races or subraces can live on different terrains...
Some of them may live under water.. some near vulcanos or desert etc etc.
I would like to see multiple on one planet on different tiles
Each race and subrace has also different opinions and ideologies as we learned

So what if some of them on one planet may revolt and get independent without taking the whole planet if the ruler of the empire would accept this for peaceful coexistence


So if we have this setup these independent guys could start an empire... colonizing waterplanets or desert etc on their own... or they join an existing starempire which suits them



Or the other way around... you as a desert race have a shared border with some peaceful aqua guys... both of you have already all planets occupied in your reach... now the idea is to expand on planets from the other empire on tiles where those guys cant even breath... would make sense
Over time it could be that the existing guys leave their empire and join yours due to changing ideologies or something

Would add a nice layer to the game....
I would like to see that feature

 

[Genusaus]

(I want at least one game where I start out as one modern Earth nation competing against other modern Earth nations, for example)

This is what I initially though Stellaris was going to be like--I wanted the ability to play as some nation like South Africa and use SANSA (or any other nation and their agency) to discover my own little section of the galaxy, and perhaps found a colony while simultaneously having to juggle the geopolitical struggles of Earth. I'm not disappointed in Stellaris thus far though.