Muslim religion should be able to raid

[Tusade]

Byzantines can raid, norse and tribals can raid,... But muslims lords can't??? Why not?

There is a reason why the Mediterranean sea was a dangerous place: it was full of Moorish (Muslim) pirates whose only business was the kidnapping of white and European women to sell them to their Muslim masters and and fill their harem.

Suggestion: The tenet "Struggle and Submission" must allow you to raid. Simple as that.

 

[Truenorth14]

You are aware there is a new tax policy for clan government that allow raiding... also how can the byzantines raid?

 

[Tusade]

You are aware there is a new tax policy for clan government that allow raiding... also how can the byzantines raid?

From the wiki:

In order to Raid, a ruler must have at least one of the following:

• Unreformed faith
• Tribal government
• Practiced Pirates tradition
• Legacy of Piracy dynasty modifier
• Frontier administration

Warfare - CK3 Wiki

ck3.paradoxwikis.com

Also, i didn't see that the clan government can allow you to raid, thanks!

Government - CK3 Wiki

ck3.paradoxwikis.com

 

[InsidiousMage]

Also, i didn't see that the clan government can allow you to raid, thanks!

The wiki isn't updated by Paradox so it can be out-of-date sometimes. Ghazi vassals can raid though as of the latest patch though. See the clan updates from this DD.

 

[tribnia]

I hope there could be some special military republics to represent the Orders/Corsairs/Mamluks/Duchy of Athens in the future. Most of them, except Delhi Mamluks, are located around Mediterran region, though.

 

[InsidiousMage]

I hope there could be some special military republics to represent the Orders/Corsairs/Mamluks/Duchy of Athens in the future. Most of them, except Delhi Mamluks, are located around Mediterran region, though.

The Practiced Piracy tradition already exists so it could be used for that purpose.

 

[Citizen Caen]

The real answer if we’re wanting to be historical is everyone should be able to raid, including feudal vassals against their neighbors
It was the most common form of conflict in the Middle Ages.

 

[InsidiousMage]

The real answer if we’re wanting to be historical is everyone should be able to raid, including feudal vassals against their neighbors
It was the most common form of conflict in the Middle Ages.

I would really like to see this because it would allow you to do something with the martial lifestyle besides conquest.

 

[apollo1989vieten]

I would really like to see this because it would allow you to do something with the martial lifestyle besides conquest.

There’s for the sake of plunder and raiding as a war strategy. Since England didn’t the manpower to garrison captured castles (plus siege warfare can take a long time), England took to raiding France during the Hundred Years’ War. When there was little to no control to prevent it internally, raiding just for plunder happened.

After the early Islamic expansion ended mainly due to the Abbasid revolution, it was decreed that the frontier had to be raided at least once a year to keep the spirit of jihad alive. I don’t know how much it was followed not to raid fellow Muslims during the disintegration of Caliphate authority.

 

[Comrade_Boris]

Another post of me asking for the border raid CB to be used generically for Feudal and Clan and not locked to the Iberian Struggle. It's essentially a less powerful version of raiding that would be good to still keep "real raiding" special.

 

[Muezzahan]

Crusader states shlould also be able to raid, as they did historically.

 

[Benismann]

The real answer if we’re wanting to be historical is everyone should be able to raid, including feudal vassals against their neighbors
It was the most common form of conflict in the Middle Ages.

The problem with that is that raiding is extremely annoying on the receiving end and at the same time breaks economy even harder (somehow) and will probably render AI even less capable of doing anything. Raiding would have to be reworked if it was allowed for everyone with no ifs.

 

[Citizen Caen]

The problem with that is that raiding is extremely annoying on the receiving end and at the same time breaks economy even harder (somehow) and will probably render AI even less capable of doing anything. Raiding would have to be reworked if it was allowed for everyone with no ifs.

That’s true, when I suggested it I was assuming some balancing along with it. If Paradox wanted to do it the easy way they’d use Iberia’s border raid as a simplified version for everyone. But if they wanted to do it for real I’d suggest the following:
1. Feudal and clans can only raid neighboring counties without special cultural traditions
2.defeating a raiding army should grant a truce where the raiders cannot raid again for 10 years
3. Raiding within a realm is a crime and starts a family feud, so ai won’t do it unless evil personality+sufficiently powerful vs liege. (Makes it high risk high reward to be a robber baron)
4. Add non-aggression pacts And sending tributes as ways to get truces and prevent raids

Those are just some examples off the top of my head. It’s all in the execution of the idea. Obviously they could do it really badly, but it can be done right as well.

 

[naq29]

There is a reason why the Mediterranean sea was a dangerous place: it was full of Moorish (Muslim) pirates whose only business was the kidnapping of white and European women to sell them to their Muslim masters and and fill their harem.

maybe in a future Harem DLC

 

[apollo1989vieten]

maybe in a future Harem DLC

Paradox seems reluctant to represent medieval slavery, especially medieval sex slavery.

 

[Benismann]

2.defeating a raiding army should grant a truce where the raiders cannot raid again for 10 years

Fun fact - that's kinda how it works with AI right now. Defeated while raiding AI's will not raid the target for the next 5 years... i think.

3. Raiding within a realm is a crime and starts a family feud, so ai won’t do it unless evil personality+sufficiently powerful vs liege. (Makes it high risk high reward to be a robber baron)

And you also can't raid "within a realm" in the current system. That would be funny tho, imagine if you had to have higher than 0 crown authority to stop raiding within the realm....

 

[Benismann]

Paradox seems reluctant to represent medieval slavery, especially medieval sex slavery.

Yes, but also concubines and forced concubinage exist...

 

[apollo1989vieten]

Yes, but also concubines and forced concubinage exist...

Concubinage by itself would not be a representation. Forced concubinage sort of is. But you can't sell captives to willing buyers.

 

[Citizen Caen]

And you also can't raid "within a realm" in the current system. That would be funny tho, imagine if you had to have higher than 0 crown authority to stop raiding within the realm....

Yeah but I think you should, as you say under low crown authority. Anytime you see references about the Public peace in history it’s referring less to stopping what would have been considered “legitimate claim wars” and more about stopping the incessant inter-baronial raiding and pillaging that was ripping the countryside apart and turning it into a living hell for the peasantry and burghers.
This usually happened during low points of central authority. Examples being England during the Anarchy, the Rhine during the various periods of Robber Barons, and was the general state of France (particularly around Ile-de-France) in the 10th to 12th centuries.

To highlight this mindset, allow me to post a quote from Bertrand de Borne a petty Nobleman and troubadour of the 12th century:

“"We are going to have some fun. For the barons will make much of us ... and if they want us to remain with them, they will give us barbarins' (i.e. coin of Limoges). And again: 'Trumpet, drums, flags and pennons, standards and horses white and black—that is what we shall shortly see. And it will be a happy day; for we shall seize the usurers' goods, and no more shall beasts of burden pass along the highways by day in complete safety; nor shall the burgess journey without fear, nor the merchant on his way to France; but the man who is full of courage shall be rich.'”

This is the kind of Roleplay that I want to see in CK

 

[Aidanator800]

After the early Islamic expansion ended mainly due to the Abbasid revolution, it was decreed that the frontier had to be raided at least once a year to keep the spirit of jihad alive. I don’t know how much it was followed not to raid fellow Muslims during the disintegration of Caliphate authority.

Yeah, raiding was, like, a massive aspect of the Byzantine-Caliphate border up until the mid-tenth century (when the Byzantines then managed to expand the border between them well into Syria). Allowing raids between the two would also have the added benefit of providing bigger incentive to create frontier themes when playing as Byzantium, to up the defenses of border provinces against these raids.