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CharlesV

Second Lieutenant
36 Badges
Mar 31, 2017
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This is my opinion on Steel Division; why the game is not as fun as it could potentially be, especially for a mass market.

I believe that Paradox have tried to be too clever by half with the game. They have tried to simulate encounter battles, with phases and units that indicate their idea of a strategy - recon, push, hold. This broad tactic never really changes, so it's a pity that, in my opinion, it doesn't work.

The game is simply too short, and the scoring system too quick, to allow a recon phase. There is not phase of building a defense and scouting units, as you might attempt to do; no sooner have you bum-rushed the middle of the map then a Stug from across the map kills every Honey you might have deployed. You can't probe for weak points, or shore up a defense, because - and here is the crux - the game is, accidentally or not, a game of attrition. You simply hope to kill their units and keep your own, always reinforcing, never really planning and attacking.

The heart of this is the scoring system. I support the idea of percentage points, and like how it escalates, but the change in territory of 1% triggering a flow of points? I think it's too fast, and too balanced, to let one team get the advantage. Perhaps a change of 5% starting the points, or 10% - something that will ad strategy to the initial phase beyond rushing headlong at the centre line. You can't take up positions, because even marginally behind the front line will mean you loose points. It's just not helpful for letting the less confident players, and new ones, learn the game. It becomes, essentially, a race of who has the fastest units - even if you are both equal, in a multiplayer battle, the one who dashed out at the start will win.

This means, as well, there can never be a proper scouting phase. The score change means one player will always be clawing towards the 50% mark, and attacking mercilessly from the start. They're not going to waste their time scouting, when they can attack, trying to reclaim the points difference before it's too late. And the other player will always be reinforcing, adding units to sit on their laurels on the 1% benchmark.

I'm not expecting a HOI4 system of battleplans. I'm not expecting a Total War style "everyone is visible" game. But I am suggesting a change in the pace of the game, so players can formulate plans and drive through. This is what people want, I believe - armored thrusts, proper blitzkrieg style. I don't want a messy brawl, confusing and artillery dominated. I know, of course, that the Hedgerows are not a place for armoured thrusts. But I do want to formulate a plan and see it through, a better plan than sending infantry into a town until it is stopped by a hidden machine gun. I want to be able to scout the machine gun, and counter it.

I know, I'm not the best. I'm not even the least worst. Maybe I'm just not good enough, don't have fast enough reactions, to be good at this game. I know it requires respect, and I have tried to give it that. If you like it, fine. Please, say so and why, so I may appreciate this game. But I think, in trying to create a historical experience, Eugene and Paradox have missed something what makes the game enjoyable.
 
1% for +1 system is garbage and has been criticized since the beta. It maybe doesn't look like it makes a huge difference but the 52% in Closer Combat mode plays way better and makes for much more interesting and closer games.
 
trying to reclaim the points difference before it's too late

it is pretty common that in most games one side takes an early lead and while the other side might push back eventually, there simply isn't enough time to actually win the game. i mean what's the point in even trying in a game in which you are on the losing side and slowly slipping beyond the point of no return? therefore i'd like to see something implemented that can allow the losing side to bring the game back, after all a mechanic like that was present in wargame (killing CVs) and made for some interesting outcomes. maybe a breakthrough mechanic that would allow you to win the game if you push into the enemy deployment zone in phase C? no matter what the score is on the board, if you break through the enemy positions in battle phase, for all intents and purposes you have won the battle, right? i realise that this happening would be pretty uncommon, but maybe if the mechanic is there it might lead to more balls to the wall attacks instead of just quiet acceptance of the inevitable. just a thought.
 
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Make the comeback mechanic too strong and you risk trivializing phase A/B. While I agree to an extent the game rewards aggressive exploitation and reminds players through points and time limits that a good plan executed immediately beats the best plan executed late. This of course carries connotations about decks capabilities but that all plays into the over arching strategy.

All that said I'm not entirely against a comeback mechanism but it needs to be a carefully considered option.

von Luck
 
Maybe some portion of kill value, or a flat value of income added to income after a kill. Could simulate a form of salvage and put more units on the field for any game mode.
 
Thats why I've modded my version where points begin at 52% but its only half of the truth.

The other problem is the front line version. It looks pretty but thats all it does. Together with the percentage / point system it kills basically some good overall strategies like massing units on one side to push through and stuff like that.

Additionally the game prefers stationary unit over moving unit with all the aiming time and can't shoot when moving rules.

So the base of the game is:

1. Race to the middle
2. Sit there and send squad by squad / unit by unit to push some millimeter further like exchanging / trading unit with your opponent hoping you get the better trades

Which leads to monotonous gameplay where it is more important to have the right counter unit in your deck for what your opponent is sending at your then having any strategy at all.
quid pro quo, this for that is what steeldivision is and not a strategy game.

What makes it worse, is the uniform thing of point to get new units which end up like:
you get a new unit, your opponent get a new unit, you get a new unit, your opponent get a new unit, you get a new unit, your opponent get a new unit, you get a new unit, your opponent get a new unit, you get a new unit, your opponent get a new unit, you get a new unit, your opponent get a new unit, you get a new unit, your opponent get a new unit, you get a new unit, your opponent get a new unit, you get a new unit, your opponent get a new unit, you get a new unit, your opponent get a new unit, you get a new unit, your opponent get a new unit, you get a new unit, your opponent get a new unit, you get a new unit, your opponent get a new unit, you get a new unit, your opponent get a new unit, you get a new unit, your opponent get a new unit, you get a new unit, your opponent get a new unit, you get a new unit, your opponent get a new unit, you get a new unit, your opponent get a new unit, you get a new unit, your opponent get a new unit, you get a new unit, your opponent get a new unit, you get a new unit, your opponent get a new unit, you get a new unit, your opponent get a new unit, you get a new unit, your opponent get a new unit, you get a new unit, your opponent get a new unit, you get a new unit, your opponent get a new unit,

All eugen did was change the amount of points per battlegroup per phase to make it sound "more" interesting but that ended up messing with the balance of the game.

:D

Boring
 
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This is my opinion on Steel Division; why the game is not as fun as it could potentially be, especially for a mass market.

I believe that Paradox have tried to be too clever by half with the game. They have tried to simulate encounter battles, with phases and units that indicate their idea of a strategy - recon, push, hold. This broad tactic never really changes, so it's a pity that, in my opinion, it doesn't work.

The game is simply too short, and the scoring system too quick, to allow a recon phase. There is not phase of building a defense and scouting units, as you might attempt to do; no sooner have you bum-rushed the middle of the map then a Stug from across the map kills every Honey you might have deployed. You can't probe for weak points, or shore up a defense, because - and here is the crux - the game is, accidentally or not, a game of attrition. You simply hope to kill their units and keep your own, always reinforcing, never really planning and attacking.

The heart of this is the scoring system. I support the idea of percentage points, and like how it escalates, but the change in territory of 1% triggering a flow of points? I think it's too fast, and too balanced, to let one team get the advantage. Perhaps a change of 5% starting the points, or 10% - something that will ad strategy to the initial phase beyond rushing headlong at the centre line. You can't take up positions, because even marginally behind the front line will mean you loose points. It's just not helpful for letting the less confident players, and new ones, learn the game. It becomes, essentially, a race of who has the fastest units - even if you are both equal, in a multiplayer battle, the one who dashed out at the start will win.

This means, as well, there can never be a proper scouting phase. The score change means one player will always be clawing towards the 50% mark, and attacking mercilessly from the start. They're not going to waste their time scouting, when they can attack, trying to reclaim the points difference before it's too late. And the other player will always be reinforcing, adding units to sit on their laurels on the 1% benchmark.

I'm not expecting a HOI4 system of battleplans. I'm not expecting a Total War style "everyone is visible" game. But I am suggesting a change in the pace of the game, so players can formulate plans and drive through. This is what people want, I believe - armored thrusts, proper blitzkrieg style. I don't want a messy brawl, confusing and artillery dominated. I know, of course, that the Hedgerows are not a place for armoured thrusts. But I do want to formulate a plan and see it through, a better plan than sending infantry into a town until it is stopped by a hidden machine gun. I want to be able to scout the machine gun, and counter it.

I know, I'm not the best. I'm not even the least worst. Maybe I'm just not good enough, don't have fast enough reactions, to be good at this game. I know it requires respect, and I have tried to give it that. If you like it, fine. Please, say so and why, so I may appreciate this game. But I think, in trying to create a historical experience, Eugene and Paradox have missed something what makes the game enjoyable.

IMHO they ruined the phase system the moment they introduced firefly, stug, sherman, chuchill, planes and other medium-heavy units right at start.
I expected phase A to be recon and light vehicles only (as they said before release) combined with somewhat light infantry.
Meme units don't help either, why can allies deploy pz IV in phase A when Germany can't? (same with firefly).
We were also suposed to be unable to rush because of this power progression, turns rushes are very viable.

That said, im not against phase system, i simply think it was poorly implemented.
 
I don't understand why people are trying to make this game something it isn't. This isn't a RTS building game, its a fluid battlefield. It gives you opportunities to exploit weaknesses when you pay attention. I.E I am fighting an enemy hard at St. Mere Eglise, the enemy keeps pouring units into the area, (and I notice by strategically placing recon units where they can see the road ) While the fighting is intense, I sacrifice reinforcing the town by moving to the flank with a few key units (a tank, infantry, AFV) and boom, the entire battlefield changes!

I have coordinated tons of plans with pre-made teams. We see a weakness, you probe and exploit.

I agree some additions like the strong tanks in phase A don't necessarily work with the system. It is suppose to represent forward recon observers spotting enemy movement, then moves to a recon in force with more infantry and AFV, to a full out battle by phase C, I like that. However those flavor units ruin it.

I have no opinion on the percentages, its still confusing to me, I had no idea how I lost a game yesterday when I held the majority of the big factory at collembelles and everything else looked even.
 
I don't understand why people are trying to make this game something it isn't. This isn't a RTS building game, its a fluid battlefield. It gives you opportunities to exploit weaknesses when you pay attention.
I know it's a fluid battlefield, but it's just too fluid. It never really gives you an opportunity to exploit something fully. Yes, you can get an edge on the side of the map by 1 or 2%, but that only helps if it's completely even. Without recon, and the time to actually use it, defense will beat attack - you'll always be charging straight into a machine gun nest, or an AT gun. And the lack of time, and requisition point system, never gives you time to properly stage an offensive.
 
I feel like Eugen really hasn't used the phase system to its full potential, especially in the older decks. You get the feeling that phase B and C are nebulous as well. I think they could have been a lot more aggressive about how they designed the decks.
 
I know it's a fluid battlefield, but it's just too fluid. It never really gives you an opportunity to exploit something fully. Yes, you can get an edge on the side of the map by 1 or 2%, but that only helps if it's completely even. Without recon, and the time to actually use it, defense will beat attack - you'll always be charging straight into a machine gun nest, or an AT gun. And the lack of time, and requisition point system, never gives you time to properly stage an offensive.

This is partially due to the maps being too small for the amount of players on them. 3v3 is played on 2v2 maps and 4v4 is played on maps that are better suited for 3v3.

1v1 and 2v2 maps are sized appropriately to spread units out.

On these maps you are given much more room to exploit.
 
I know it's a fluid battlefield, but it's just too fluid. It never really gives you an opportunity to exploit something fully. Yes, you can get an edge on the side of the map by 1 or 2%, but that only helps if it's completely even. Without recon, and the time to actually use it, defense will beat attack - you'll always be charging straight into a machine gun nest, or an AT gun. And the lack of time, and requisition point system, never gives you time to properly stage an offensive.

that's not quite correct. Too fluid would mean attacks exploiting opportunities then being defeated by ripostes of reinforcements. Defense does not necisarrilly defeat the attack - the attack has the capacity to chose their point of emphasis and if done correctly can mean overwhelming firepower on whatever is unfortunate enough to be in that area. Not to mention a well executed attack can wipe out the defense then exploit that loss of defender's mass by continuing to roll up stragglers and trickle in defenses. One of the chief ways I win in multiplayer is overwhelming the defender by killing their valued assets then annihilating their units in detail. This is typically followed up with a rapid exploit to the next terrain obstacle. All of this is rather difficult to simply explain as most people don't grasp the importance of timing, mass, and proper execution. I'll provide a few replays of good offensive action to provide context.

Not to toot my own horn here but this replay shows a successful over run of my opponents initial deployment and subsequent exploit beyond several major terrain obstacles. It wasn't until I was near his spawn that he was able to stymie my assault after which point the frontline stagnated. This was enough to provide a +1 bleed for the 3v3 though and drew the attention of several players worth of assets.
Edit:
could only find one for now I'll look for more at a later time.

von Luck
 

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One of the chief ways I win in multiplayer is overwhelming the defender by killing their valued assets then annihilating their units in detail. This is typically followed up with a rapid exploit to the next terrain obstacle. All of this is rather difficult to simply explain as most people don't grasp the importance of timing, mass, and proper execution.

Ahh... my favorite way to lose a game. During the "Recon Phase", I just can't figure out to handle a Pz IV rush, M4 rush, really any rush. It's crazy. Oh well, I'll get it someday.
 
sorry to be an idiot by how do i look at the replay?

You will need to unzip it with 7zip or something similar then drop it in your replays folder burried in c:/user/mygames/Eugen/SteelDivision/savedgames

That might be slightly off I'll correct it when I get back to my computer.

von Luck
 
Overcoming the defender and executing a push to exploit his absence involves close timings and reading the map closely. One of the things I liked least about SD44 on release is just how much information can be divined from the magic line. Battlegroups with halftracks have an innate advantage because these are semi disposable units you can use to search for hidden defenders. All of this said it takes forethought to exploit a breakthrough and you need to ruminate on what you can do to immediately push.

von Luck